* Tax Plan

[Ben Graham]

If Herman Cain has his way, the estate tax and capital-gains tax would be gone for good. So would most tax deductions, including the one for mortgage interest.

 

Instead, there would be a 9 percent flat income tax, a 9 percent corporate tax and a 9 percent national sales tax.

 

http://www.npr.org/2011/09/28/140851786/cains-catchy-9-9-9-tax-plan-draws-interest-doubters

[Parsad]

It's a regressive plan.  Those in lower income tax brackets will see a greater percentage of their income go to sales tax, as they spend more of their income on necessities.  Wealthy individuals who set up personal corporations would be down to 9% tax rates and then they could just dividend themselves an income.  Or, they may find a loophole and their income could be treated as capital gains.  In the meantime, they'll run most of their expenses through the corporation, writing off much of it, and paying 9% tax!

 

I'd like to see lower tax rates across the board, but unfortunately you can't do that because someone has to pay down the debt.  So, the burden has to be more equal.  You have staggered income tax rates, with a slight reduction for all; no change on dividends or capital gains taxation; a modest national sales tax...5-6%; estate taxes on estates valued at over $100M in all states.  Cheers! 

[Ben Graham]

Six Reasons Why the Capital Gains Tax Should Be Abolished

 

YouTube Video:

 

[Ben Graham]

Often overlooked in the debate over tax policy is the success of the Clinton-era tax reductions -- reductions that, though fairly recent, are unknown to most Americans. That may be no accident.

 

It was tax relief that improved receipts following the disappointing outcome of the 1993 tax hikes and made the Clinton economy successful.

The 1997 rate reduction on capital gains unleashed the economy, causing capital investment to more than triple by 1998 and double again in 1999. Treasury receipts for this category of tax obligation increased dramatically. Without tax relief and the internet/communications revolution, the second Clinton term would likely have seen tax revenues decline in a lagging economy.

 

http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/09/the_successful_clinton_economy.html

[Parsad]

three words. d o a

 

Damn funny!  ;D  Cheers!

[Packer16]

You may not like the rates but at least he has put out a proposal to talk about which is more than the others who want to tinker around the edges.  Another point about capital gains is that alot of these are discretionary and unless folks are convinced they will go away forever they will defer until the rates change.  This is one reason think Buffett's argument may have some unintended consequences unless you apply a different set of rules to the wealthy.

 

Packer

[given2invest]

I mean, they are all the same number so it must be good policy.

 

Reminds me of Bill Maher on California's 3 strikes and you're out policy.  It works in baseball, it must be good for government policy!

[Myth465]

All this plan does is show that he doesnt care about the deficit. Basically Parsad is correct, anyone with any sense will just work around it and will pay no more than 11% in tax when its all said and done.

[Myth465]

Myth are you Parsad's hockey goalie trying to win the Stanley Cup?

 

All this plan does is show that he doesnt care about the deficiet. Basically Parsad is correct, anyone with any sense will just work around it and will pay no more than 11% in tax when its all said and done.

 

Just stating the truth / obvious. Are you Herman Cain's  :)? The guy has no shot inmo which isnt worth much. Why 9,9,9 - 6,6,6, is lower, and shows taxes are evil  ::)

[Guest Hester]

Has anybody (not you personally but a link) modeled out what this would do to federal revenue?

[given2invest]

Has anybody (not you personally but a link) modeled out what this would do to federal revenue?

 

Stop thinking! 

[Myth465]

Here are some additional details, they say its designed to be revenue neutral.

 

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2011/sep/26/facts-about-herman-cains-9-9-9-tax-plan/

 

A black man saying taxation is the equivalent to slavery is a man who doesnt know history, and inmo isnt qualified to be president. Can anyone imagine a Jewish guy saying paying tax rates that exist now is the equivalent of working in a concentration camp?

[given2invest]

Um, anyone with half a brain (I'm not being partisan) would have stopped listening when he told you his plan was the 9-9-9 plan.  This is the same douche that said the healthcare bill should be 3 pages long and all bills should be 3 pages or less.  It's just good sound bytes that are absurd.   

 

http://www.aoltv.com/2011/06/10/jon-stewart-says-herman-cain-does-not-like-to-read-video/

[Guest Hester]

Yeah I asked for amusement purposes. The effect on the federal revenues wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. This would REALLY shift the tax burden from the wealthy to the poor. In Chicago (or more accurately Cook County) the total sales tax rate would be about 19%. More than twice the proposed capital gains tax rate. I think when the proposed tax rate on bread is twice the proposed rate on profits made in the stock market I can officially assert class warfare.

 

The empowerment zone thing is very amusing. Tax breaks (or credits) just for those living in poor inner cities. The poor people in rural and suburban areas should understand. You can't expect him to extend tax credits to them too, then his tax system would become... progressive.

 

The serious leading presidential candidates that the GOP keeps producing blow my mind.

[Parsad]

Um, anyone with half a brain (I'm not being partisan) would have stopped listening when he told you his plan was the 9-9-9 plan.  This is the same douche that said the healthcare bill should be 3 pages long and all bills should be 3 pages or less.  It's just good sound bytes that are absurd.   

 

http://www.aoltv.com/2011/06/10/jon-stewart-says-herman-cain-does-not-like-to-read-video/

 

He reminds me of the guy parodied on Saturday Night Live all the time, who ran for Mayor of New York..."Because the rent is too damn high!"  Cheers!

[Packer16]

What about a progressive sales tax versus income tax.  This would be much harder to game.  In addition to a smaller income and corporate tax.

 

 

Packer

[cwericb]

“Let's all head for the Canada Border...”

 

Too late guys, this mornings Canadian Press headlines...

 

“The United States is looking at building fences along the border with Canada to help keep out terrorists and other criminals. “

 

The real reason is that they want to spend all that money is to keep you guys in...

 

 

[JSArbitrage]

Here are some additional details, they say its designed to be revenue neutral.

 

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2011/sep/26/facts-about-herman-cains-9-9-9-tax-plan/

 

A black man saying taxation is the equivalent to slavery is a man who doesnt know history, and inmo isnt qualified to be president. Can anyone imagine a Jewish guy saying paying tax rates that exist now is the equivalent of working in a concentration camp?

 

You mean like Schwarzman comparing Obama to Hitler over the possible raise of carried interest? There is no much crazy rhetoric thrown around, you'd never know tax rates on the wealthy were at historic lows.  You'd think from the commentary they were at historic highs.  It's just silliness.

[Parsad]

“Let's all head for the Canada Border...”

 

Too late guys, this mornings Canadian Press headlines...

 

“The United States is looking at building fences along the border with Canada to help keep out terrorists and other criminals. “

 

The real reason is that they want to spend all that money is to keep you guys in...

 

That's quite amusing, since there still has been no terrorist event in the United States where the terrorist arrived via Canada.  Even the idiot who planned on blowing up the space needle a few years ago was caught at the border.  In fact, all the recent terrorist activity were homegrown in the U.S. or arrived via that bastion of morality and political correctness...Saudia Arabia!  Some poor lady is going to get 10 lashes because she was caught driving there a couple of days ago.  Talk about the U.S. speaking out the wrong arse!  Cheers!

[Myth465]

LOL fair enough. Good example.

[KFRCanuk]

“Let's all head for the Canada Border...”

 

Too late guys, this mornings Canadian Press headlines...

 

“The United States is looking at building fences along the border with Canada to help keep out terrorists and other criminals. “

 

The real reason is that they want to spend all that money is to keep you guys in...

 

That's quite amusing, since there still has been no terrorist event in the United States where the terrorist arrived via Canada.  Even the idiot who planned on blowing up the space needle a few years ago was caught at the border.  In fact, all the recent terrorist activity were homegrown in the U.S. or arrived via that bastion of morality and political correctness...Saudia Arabia!  Some poor lady is going to get 10 lashes because she was caught driving there a couple of days ago.  Talk about the U.S. speaking out the wrong arse!  Cheers!

 

Ha! Canada gets a free fence!

[ERICOPOLY]

There is an interesting document here that adjusts the historical tax rates for CPI inflation:

 

http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/151.html

 

I know people keep saying that these high end tax brackets we have today are unfairly low, but historically speaking it isn't just the high end that is historically low, now is it?

 

In 1981 it looked like this for married filing jointly (and CPI adjusted, so these are today's dollars):

 

over $8,393  14%

over $13,576  16%

over $18,760  18%

over $29,374  21%

over $39,495  24%

over $49,862  28%

over $60,723  32%

over $73,806  37%

over $86,888  43%

over $113,054 49%

over $148,105  54%

over $211,297  59%

over $270,045  64%

over $400,872  68%

over $531,698  70%

 

Now, who wants to bring these tax rates back?

 

To be fair I think I cherry picked the most frightening tax brackets we've ever had -- unless you go back to the 1950s where it looks possibly even worse for the lower income earners.  Years of high inflation brought the lower income earners into tax brackets designed for higher income earners.  I wonder to what degree this played a role in the depressed corporate earnings of the period -- real consumer spending power was crushed by the shift into higher tax brackets.  How would the outcome have looked if the tax brackets had been indexed to the CPI?

[AZ_Value]

“Let's all head for the Canada Border...”

 

Too late guys, this mornings Canadian Press headlines...

 

“The United States is looking at building fences along the border with Canada to help keep out terrorists and other criminals. “

 

The real reason is that they want to spend all that money is to keep you guys in...

 

That's quite amusing, since there still has been no terrorist event in the United States where the terrorist arrived via Canada.  Even the idiot who planned on blowing up the space needle a few years ago was caught at the border.  In fact, all the recent terrorist activity were homegrown in the U.S. or arrived via that bastion of morality and political correctness...Saudia Arabia!  Some poor lady is going to get 10 lashes because she was caught driving there a couple of days ago.  Talk about the U.S. speaking out the wrong arse!  Cheers!

 

You sent Justin Bieber!!!!

Build that damn fence!! Actually wait until he goes back north and then build it high enough so he can't climb back  ;D

[cwericb]

With apologies to those trying to have a serious conversation, I just have one more comment to make.

 

When the world has some really serious debt problems and you think of the concept of building a fence along portions of a five thousand five hundred mile border, it makes you wonder what these guys are smoking.

 

Wikipedia says that 1,000 miles of that border is along the BC border where the Rockies might make pretty rough going. And unlike the Mexican border we get something called snow, especially along that 1,500 mile portion with Alaska which would make about 90% that fence rather difficult to even find during the winter. But you have to hand it to them 'cause everyone knows that no Canadian terrorist could ever think of a way of gettin over a fence so it's probably money well spent.

[StubbleJumper]

With apologies to those trying to have a serious conversation, I just have one more comment to make.

 

When the world has some really serious debt problems and you think of the concept of building a fence along portions of a five thousand five hundred mile border, it makes you wonder what these guys are smoking.

 

Wikipedia says that 1,000 miles of that border is along the BC border where the Rockies might make pretty rough going. And unlike the Mexican border we get something called snow, especially along that 1,500 mile portion with Alaska which would make about 90% that fence rather difficult to even find during the winter. But you have to hand it to them 'cause everyone knows that no Canadian terrorist could ever think of a way of gettin over a fence so it's probably money well spent.

 

 

Most of the illicit cross border traffic happens along the St. Laurence Seaway.  It'll be a real son-of-a-bitch job to build the 20 foot high fence in the middle of Lakes Superior, Huron, Erie and Ontario.  You'd need fence posts about 800 feet long in some places!

 

 

SJ