AZ_Value Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Anyone know what happens in the case of delisting, IF it happens ? The stock won't trade in public markets, but that won't mean the equity will be worth zero, will it ? Also, I assume they could get relisted in an year or two, if they could meet the listing requirements. Is that true ? correct. it won't affect the value of the firm. it will simply effect liquidity. Yep. I read in the wsj article that delisting will "wipe-out 22,000 shareholders" which is stupid and makes no sense. The company doesn't go bankrupt because it is no longer listed on the TSE, it's just less liquid. What I'm reading right now suggests that even delisting Olympus won't be easy either because of the importance of the company in Japan but they would need to show full cooperation and clean up a lot of stuff but then again who knows? I am no fan of the balance sheet and the high debt and definitely not a fan of the fraudulent board of directors that needs to go in its entirety and some of them straight to jail. But yesterday valuations fell to just a bit over $1B which doesn't make sense for this company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoodlum Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 I just knew there had to be a connection somewhere. http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/news/20111112p2g00m0dm012000c.html "Olympus paid a total of 73.4 billion yen to acquire Altis Co., a Tokyo-based medical waste recycling company, and two other domestic companies as recommended by a retired employee of a major Japanese securities house who claimed the three firms had operations with "high business values," according to the documents. The retired employee is an Olympus corporate officer's younger brother and an investment fund operator." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ_Value Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Did anybody end up taking the leap on this one? I spent quite some time trying to be comfortable with the value of the business given the debt let alone the fraudulent management, and I just couldn't. So I was gonna pass and then I saw that the ADR had fallen below 6 bucks which meant the whole company was valued at something like $1.4B which was just crazy. If a private owner wanted to buy the endoscope business alone it would cost at least $10B. And then I remembered the Klarman quote "There is a price at which almost any security represents value". I think Graham said that too. So I bought. Well, no credit to myself really, just luck and Mr. Market, but this has turned into the quickest 83% gain I've ever had. Maybe it'll go back to 30 bucks eventually who knows. But I've met my quota of gambling on Japanese companies run by crooks for the year so I'll go back to regularly scheduled programming. Was just wondering if anybody else bought? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclecticvalue Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Nope I didn't :'(. It is my fault I didn't look into the company financial statements in time. Also I was worried about the delisting and there is a chance it could still happen. Good job I hope you took some off the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoch01 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Yes, I bought. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-11-17/olympus-makes-pledge-to-banks-for-3-3-billion-debt-cut-by-2015.html "Olympus Corp. (7733), the endoscope maker being probed by Japanese, U.S. and U.K. regulators for alleged accounting irregularities, pledged to cut debt by 256.6 billion yen ($3.3 billion), according to a document distributed at its meeting with banks yesterday." Interesting - I wonder how they will generate $3.3 billion over 3 years :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoodlum Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 This doesn't look good. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/18/business/global/japanese-police-investigate-olympus.html?_r=3&ref=business?ref=hirokotabuchi Olympus paid a total of ¥481 billion, or $6.25 billion, through questionable acquisition payments, investments and advisory fees from 2000 to 2009, according to the memo, but only ¥105 billion has been written down or otherwise accounted for in its financial statements. That leaves ¥376 billion, or $4.9 billion, unaccounted for, according to the memo. The memo says investigators believe that over half that amount has been channeled to organized crime syndicates, including the country’s largest, the Yamaguchi Gumi. The memo does not make clear whether Olympus knew about those links. But if confirmed by investigators, an association with organized crime could prompt a delisting of Olympus shares from the Tokyo Stock Exchange, under the exchange’s rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoodlum Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Nice to see Goldman Sachs made some money from this. ::) http://z3n.tv/2011/11/16/goldman-sachs-makes-26-million-from-olympus-scandal/ "According to a report in Sankei Biz, U.S. investment banking firm Goldman Sachs made roughly $26 million by short-selling approximately 830,000 Olympus stocks the day before Woodford was dismissed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green King Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 go Goldman ;D lolz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ_Value Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Good job I hope you took some off the table. Oh yeah... I got out completely when it shot up. This is now someone else's cigar butt to deal with. As expected the moment someone came in with a light many more cockroaches were found, and probably more to come the way I see it. I will not even consider it again unless it drops considerably again maybe way below $1B in total market cap. Interesting - I wonder how they will generate $3.3 billion over 3 years :) Let's hope they don't use the same recipe they used to hide losses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoch01 Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 This doesn't look good. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/18/business/global/japanese-police-investigate-olympus.html?_r=3&ref=business?ref=hirokotabuchi Olympus paid a total of ¥481 billion, or $6.25 billion, through questionable acquisition payments, investments and advisory fees from 2000 to 2009, according to the memo, but only ¥105 billion has been written down or otherwise accounted for in its financial statements. That leaves ¥376 billion, or $4.9 billion, unaccounted for, according to the memo. No, that doesn't look good. I sold this morning at a loss (it now has my permission to go vertical). This appears to be dramatically different than an Amex salad oil scandal, not just in size, but in kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlanMaestro Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Read his book and ask yourself: would you do the same thing—or would you just shut up and go to Davos? - The Economist http://www.economist.com/news/books-and-arts/21567046-what-really-happened-japans-premier-camera-maker-paying-price-doing-whats-right http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1591845750/theeconomists-20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myth465 Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Very good economist review, made me want to read the book. Dont know if I have time though. ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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