no_free_lunch Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 I went through the verification process completely and was informed that from Dec 16 - Jan 16 the ICO was open to a "select group" of investors only (I did not make that cut), and Jan 16 - Feb 16 it will open to all verified accredited investors. I was expecting to be given some type of information like a prospectus or an info packet or something, but so far I have been sent nothing. Hopefully they will provide some details before Jan 16. I don't know if I would invest anyway, but I certainly won't be throwing money into a black box. Thanks for the feedback! Good to hear from someone who got verified. This is a really tough one for me. On the one hand, I can see scenarios where OSTK goes to $200,$300,$500.. who f'ing knows. You look at some of the other currencies with valuations in the 10s of billions and yet tzero is probably better capitalized, is in a large "niche" market and has been at it for similar time frames. There is also the investments from some big players. On the other hand.. the lack of disclosure bugs me. The fact that disclosure is happening via conference calls bothers me. The fact that Byrne thows out a valuation of $5B for tzero and then later $10B, not a fan. The warrants to soros, like $2 for warrants on a $40 stock that has just tripled? Way too cheap in my opinion. The fact that the existing business has been at best mediocre is a concern. Honestly the only reason I am even thinking about this is it might be a bit safer way to play the crypto space and I do see a disconnect between their valuation and other crypto's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkbabang Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 I just received another update email from SAFTlaunch about the t0 ICO. No new info, but it mentions that I will be getting a " offering memorandum" "on or about January 18, 2018". Thank you for your patience and support. In recent months, we have had unprecedented user volume and are working feverishly to process potential investors registering to participate in tZERO's security token offering. Please see below for an update on the tZERO offering on SAFTLaunch. While the pre-sale period is currently open to certain strategic investors, all other qualified investors will begin having access to the offering memorandum and SAFE on or about January 18, 2018. Please look for emails from support@SAFTLaunch.com with the subject "tZERO qualified investors" in the coming days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkbabang Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20180116006759/en/tZERO-Trade-KODAKCoin-Future-U.S.-Regulated-Security tZERO to Trade KODAKCoin on Its Future U.S. Regulated Security Token Trading Platform NEW YORK--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Overstock.com’s blockchain subsidiary, t0.com, Inc. (“tZERO”) announced today its intent to provide advisory services to WENN Digital in connection with its recently announced KODAKCoin Security Token Offering. In addition, tZERO will advise on secondary trading of the KODAKCoin. The parties intend that the KODAKCoin will launch in Q1 2018. KODAKCoin will be the first third-party security token to launch on the security token platform that tZERO is developing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no_free_lunch Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 Is there any word on the ICO phase 2? Phase 1 was supposed to have completed by now. I see nothing in the news or edgar so I will have to assume it is still on-going, and delayed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkbabang Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 Is there any word on the ICO phase 2? Phase 1 was supposed to have completed by now. I see nothing in the news or edgar so I will have to assume it is still on-going, and delayed. Received email yesterday which said: “Thursday January 25th, SAFTLaunch will determine the number of people eligible to participate. SAFTLaunch will begin emailing groups of investors all around the world with the date on which they will be able to access tZERO's token offering. Each group will have a date range in which they MUST complete their deal subscription. Unfortunately, no exceptions can be made for investors who miss the cut-off date of this period. Please be prepared for the investment period” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WneverLOSE Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 I'm starting to read about the Patrick Byrne story and I can't stop. It's a mix of a business story and a real life thriller book. I was wondering if anyone can shine a bit more light on the connections between different characters in the story. This is where I got so far on the business front : Warren Buffett started investing in GEICO around the time Ben Graham was on the board, in 1975 John J. Byrne (Patrick's dad) was appointed the CEO of GEICO after it stumbled into some troubles and started a turnaround, Buffett was impressed and bought a position (eventually buying the entire company), he even went on to say that John was the "Babe Ruth of insurance." After retiring from GEICO John Byrne was invited to run the troubled Fireman's Fund, then a subsidiary of American Express. Fireman's had incurred $356 million in pretax losses in 1983 and 1984. Byrne vastly improved Fireman's financial performance and initiated a public offering of some of Fireman's shares in 1985. The company was sold to Allianz AG in 1991. Byrne retained the Fireman's holding company, which he later renamed as White Mountains Insurance Group. Allan Mecham (Arlington Value Management / Capital) is known on this board and he invest both in White Mountains, Overstock and Fairfax. Fairfax is a long time investor in Overstock and they are known for their bet on the housing market. Someone also known for his bet on the housing market is Michael Burry of Scion Capital that was featured on the movie the big short. White Mountains were investors in Scion Capital and Scion Capital were investors in Overstock. Patrick grew up with "Uncle Buffett" and later on after he got his PhD he ran a subsidiary of Berkshire Hathaway before moving on to start Overstock. John Byrne was on the board of Overstock but due to a disagreement with his son about the time he spends about fighting wall street and naked shorting he resigned. I would be glad to hear if I misses something regarding the investors / characters in the story of overstock and the connections between them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spark411 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Few things I would add. 1. I read somewhere that Byrne's grandfather was the head of the SEC at one time. 2. Byrne referred to a "birdie" in Omaha who advised what aspect of the financial market needed most attention. 3. Byrne has intimate knowledge of SEC/trading because he has been in knee deep legal battles for years. If there is anyone with the perfect background and in place relationships to disrupt entire financial markets, Patrick Byrne is a good guy to bet on. I've been a holder of OSTK for 7+ years. The #1 reason is Patrick Byrne and his background/relationships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no_free_lunch Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 I own a position in OSTK so I am talking against my book here. I have to say that I don't see what you guys see in Byrne. I can't disagree with the pedigree but this link to Berkshire and affiliates is over a decade old. At this point we should judge based on Byrne's performance with Overstock. In my mind it hasn't been that spectacular. Maybe it's just a really tough industry but that is the one he chose. His commentary on bitcoin in conference calls is very high level and company promotional. You see this with other successful entrepreneurs such as Musk but at least with Musk I have seen him deliver. The history is all I have to go on, otherwise I don't know how to tell whether he can get operations going. It is one thing to announce an idea and another to get it working. Perhaps the stock lending thing is really moving, I don't have a way to gauge it and I guess that will come out next quarter but for now I am cautious on this one. I know it's a small thing but that bug with bitcoin cash annoyed me. They use a third party for the actual bitcoin transactions and it is alledged that they didn't use the API return calls properly. As a result some researcher found a way to put transactions through using bitcoin cash instead of bitcoin without them immediately detecting it. I think they have fixed it but really, these are the guys at the forefront of bitcoin technology? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WneverLOSE Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Well I'm agnostic about him, I don't like him or hate him, I don't know nearly as much as I should to have an opinion. I started taking interest lately after seeing some of the connections that I outlined and I just read about him and his company. What I do like is his intelligence, I don't think anyone can deny he is one smart cookie. The thing that I don't like is his behavior, Taking an ad on the wall street journal https://qzprod.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/screen-shot-2013-07-27-at-3-36-03-pm.png?w=640 taunting Steve Cohen (Even if the "Sith Lord" did everything Patrick claims it makes him look very bad) or sending an email to a fortune reporter asking her "why exactly did you become a reporter? Giving Goldman traders blowjobs didn't work out?" is no way to behave by my book even if she made fun or smirky remarks regarding his cancer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwtorock Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 I think some people are born as fighters and Patrick Byrne is one of those. Maybe he was also a spoiled child. This kind of people cant take any injustice in life. They fight even it seems no chance of winning. I have the same concern about execution here. He may be a brilliant visionary leader in the crypo world, but we still need to see good executions. To be fair, the T0 acquisition already paying off (I was not expecting that or at least not so soon). Also he still has much skin in this, so his best interest is aligned with shareholders... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcosc Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 I know it's a small thing but that bug with bitcoin cash annoyed me. They use a third party for the actual bitcoin transactions and it is alledged that they didn't use the API return calls properly. As a result some researcher found a way to put transactions through using bitcoin cash instead of bitcoin without them immediately detecting it. I think they have fixed it but really, these are the guys at the forefront of bitcoin technology? There's lots of reasons to dislike OSTK, but this seems rather silly. It's akin to saying Google should have no business running search and cloud given a bug in their domain registration service allowed a third party to hijack the google.com domain name (!!) (http://uk.businessinsider.com/this-guy-bought-googlecom-from-google-for-one-minute-2015-9?r=US&IR=T) If anything, I think the BCH bug is just proof that no one really uses these cryptos to actually pay for goods/services, as it would probably have been detected long ago... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsad Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Well I'm agnostic about him, I don't like him or hate him, I don't know nearly as much as I should to have an opinion. I started taking interest lately after seeing some of the connections that I outlined and I just read about him and his company. What I do like is his intelligence, I don't think anyone can deny he is one smart cookie. The thing that I don't like is his behavior, Taking an ad on the wall street journal https://qzprod.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/screen-shot-2013-07-27-at-3-36-03-pm.png?w=640 taunting Steve Cohen (Even if the "Sith Lord" did everything Patrick claims it makes him look very bad) or sending an email to a fortune reporter asking her "why exactly did you become a reporter? Giving Goldman traders blowjobs didn't work out?" is no way to behave by my book even if she made fun or smirky remarks regarding his cancer. Patrick is an Irish brawler...he's fought all his life and will continue to do so...it's in his DNA. You might not be fond of those comments or the stance he took, but without Overstock's lawsuits and Fairfax's lawsuits, you would not have seen the changes at the DTC and the end of naked shorting on Wall Street. John Byrne subsequently admitted he should have supported his son and he was right. Buffett also said he didn't see naked shorting as a problem...if you run Berkshire Hathaway and are in the enviable financial position that Berkshire is in, of course you don't see a problem. But it certainly existed, and there were many people who were taking advantage of companies in vulnerable positions due to an external or internal event. In terms of the Sith Lord comment...Byrne was simply alluding to a significant player supporting a broad agenda of naked shorting and pulling strings behind the scene. And as we know, Sith Lords always come in pairs...so Cohen was only one of the players. The other one is now simply viewed as a renowned philanthropist and didn't get sucked into the lawsuits or SEC prosecutions. Byrne the CEO is an acquired taste. I think he's been a far better visionary than operator. The one thing shareholders in any Byrne vehicle will get is an honest CEO who will only benefit if his shareholders benefit...now that must be worth something! Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spark411 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 The reason that OSTK has been a good investment and not just a good company is Patrick Byrne. I've written why it's a good company but the great thing about OSTK has been the buying opportunities that have existed because of Patrick Byrne. As many have posted, Patrick Byrne is eccentric and tends to push his agenda/ideals a little too far. This personal weakness causes this stock to go down more than it should. The "more than it should" is the very reason this stock creates opportunities for retail investors. Just two years ago, this stock graded above $24 and then went down to $12! Just a few months ago, this stock goes from $70 to $45 and now above $80. The business itself had not changed much. I would argue that the moat and intrinsic value continues to grow. Right now, I think the stock is fully valued. I am waiting for Patrick Byrne to do something else crazy that creates a lot of noise so that it spooks investors and lowers the stock price materially. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no_free_lunch Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Tzero put in an SEC submission yesterday. They have now sold $38M of the $250-300M in tzero tokens. I am not sure about how this all works with timing but does this not concern others, especially given the stock price? I have a small position but am thinking of closing given that without this ICO being a huge success it is hard to justify the current stock price. Happy to hear counter-arguments. https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1726726/000172672618000005/xslFormDX01/primary_doc.xml Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkbabang Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Tzero put in an SEC submission yesterday. They have now sold $38M of the $250-300M in tzero tokens. I am not sure about how this all works with timing but does this not concern others, especially given the stock price? I have a small position but am thinking of closing given that without this ICO being a huge success it is hard to justify the current stock price. Happy to hear counter-arguments. https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1726726/000172672618000005/xslFormDX01/primary_doc.xml $38,469,716 from 178 investors. That's an average of $216k per investor. I wonder how many investors they have opened this up to? I signed up in the beginning of December and I haven't been allowed to invest yet. Most ICOs open up to everyone on day 1, I wonder why they are doing it this way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkbabang Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 The latest email from SAFTLaunch about the tZERO ICO. More delays: "Many of you have already completed your KYC/AML on the platform, but we are currently waiting on a number of investors to finalize the process, particularly foreign investors that need their accreditation. As a courtesy to all potential investors who have been invited to this select group, we are extending the launch date of the main sale. Please check your inbox over the next 48 hours for an email from SAFTLaunch.com alerting you that the offering period in which you may participate has opened." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no_free_lunch Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Well I am not as concerned if it is just a delay in processing accreditation. Does this mean your window got moved back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
writser Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 https://medium.com/@MidwesternHedgi/overstocks-patrick-bryne-s-promotion-of-tzero-is-false-and-misleading-406eccd8d636 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkbabang Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Well I am not as concerned if it is just a delay in processing accreditation. Does this mean your window got moved back? Yes, but I don't understand why they are doing this. I was first told middle of December, then that got moved to middle of January, then that got moved to the 26th (today), now it is being moved again. I've participated in ICOs before. And how it usually works is that on a certain date it is open to everyone and on a certain date it closes for everyone. Why this grouping and windowing? Why a few hundred select investors first then others later? Wouldn't it be in tZERO's interest to let as many people invest as soon as possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardGibbons Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 I suspect the difference is that most ICOs completely ignore US securities regulations, while Overstock is at least paying some attention to those regulations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KinAlberta Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 "OSTK stock is making promises it can't keep" I saw this byline and thought; Oh, let's read this article. However, as usual, considerable disappointment in the quality of supposedly professional unbiased writing. In this case, disappointment with the all too common pairing up of statements out of their own context with a counterpoint tagged on, which in light of their slight-of-hand pairing, may or may not be valid. Example: “I’m telling you we have an invention – we’re going after 75% of Goldman’s revenue,” he said on the call. Earlier, he said “I suspect [securities lending] may be 100% of the profits at Goldman Sachs.” Anyway, everyone's thoughts on the rest of the opinion piece would be most welcome. Overstock.com Inc Stock Is Overvalued, but Short at Your Peril OSTK stock is making promises it can't keep By VINCE MARTIN, InvestorPlace Contributor Jan 29, 2018, 6:51 am EST But there’s a larger concern here. Byrne tends to oversell his case. Multiple times on the call – and elsewhere, as a blogger has pointed out – Byrne dropped the “prime brokerage” qualifier: “I’m telling you we have an invention – we’re going after 75% of Goldman’s revenue,” he said on the call. Earlier, he said “I suspect [securities lending] may be 100% of the profits at Goldman Sachs.” Byrne may be misspeaking but investors are incorrectly taking him literally. Prime brokerage is only a part of Goldman’s Securities Services business, which generated just 11% of the company’s total 2016 revenue, per the 10-K. https://investorplace.com/2018/01/ostk-stock-overvalued-short/#.Wm9bDCMZNR4 Bolding is mine Per a quick Google search (below): 8-K OVERSTOCK.COM, INC filed this Form 8-K on 11/14/2017 "I'm going to show you a piece of paper that cost you, the shareholders, $20 million to see. That's how much it cost for us to get this piece of paper. This comes, sometimes it's slow, I'm told. Okay. I can legally show this. This came out of that lawsuit. This is from Goldman Sachs. How much of Goldman Sachs prime brokerage actually comes from this thing called securities lending? The answer turns out to be 75% of American prime brokerage revenue. " ... "we found the pipe that was really the pipe of 75% of the revenue of Goldman Sachs' prime brokerage in the United States." ... "It's based in the blockchain, no SEC audits and finding Daffy Duck and Mickey Mouse. Everything is 1:1, rigid, blockchain, immutable, secure, transparent to regulators. It's such a brilliant, I mean, such an invention. The idea that we have this, basically, in short, I'm telling you we have an invention; we're going after 75% of Goldman's revenue. We're going after, directly after, and the market has learned all about this, they really have. We are hearing from so many clients of prime brokers; I love this. I was just in New York, ..." http://investors.overstock.com/mobile.view?c=131091&v=202&d=3&id=aHR0cDovL2FwaS50ZW5rd2l6YXJkLmNvbS9maWxpbmcueG1sP2lwYWdlPTExODk0MzEwJkRTRVE9MiZTRVE9MTAmU1FERVNDPVNFQ1RJT05fUEFHRSZleHA9JnN1YnNpZD01Nw%3D%3D again, bolding is mine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no_free_lunch Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 So 75% of GS prime brokerage business is alledgedly related to securities lending. How much is GS prime brokerage revenue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KinAlberta Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 I'm not sure how this might fit into the scheme of things but it's interesting. Who owns blockchain? Goldman, BofA amass patents for coming wars By Olga Kharif BLOOMBERG NEWS DECEMBER 28, 2016 "In the headlong rush to revolutionize modern finance, blockchain enthusiasts are overlooking one potentially costly problem: Their applications, built on open-source code, may actually belong to someone else. Recently, some of the biggest names in business, from Goldman Sachs to Bank of America and Mastercard, have quietly patented some of the most promising blockchain technologies for themselves. Through mid-November, the number of patents that companies have obtained or said they’ve applied for has roughly doubled since the start of the year, according to law firm Reed Smith. ..." https://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2016/12/27/who-owns-blockchain-goldman-bofa-amass-patents-for-coming-wars/wIN4xlb7yqst5BqPlZOVEJ/story.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Schwab711 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 A summary of misleading statements by OSTK: https://medium.com/@MidwesternHedgi/overstocks-patrick-bryne-s-promotion-of-tzero-is-false-and-misleading-406eccd8d636 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KinAlberta Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 A summary of misleading statements by OSTK: https://medium.com/@MidwesternHedgi/overstocks-patrick-bryne-s-promotion-of-tzero-is-false-and-misleading-406eccd8d636 Thanks for posting. Interesting. So here's the first one with footnote links included. Any thoughts on his statements and the context of his discussion. Also posting an article about the lawsuit he's referencing. (All about something I don't want to have to follow.) Byrne false claim #1: Overstock.com spent $30 million in litigation to learn a secret, that 75% of the revenue of Goldman Sachs and 75% of the revenue of Wall Street banks is from securities lending. In Byrne’s tZERO presentations, he explains Wall Street’s “big secret,” namely that he claims the majority of investment banks’ revenue comes from securities lending. He typically first states that 75% of prime brokerage revenue comes from securities lending, but then consistently and repeatedly presents that statistic as 75% of Goldman Sachs’ revenue and/or “75% of the revenue of Wall Street”; for example: “Seventy-five percent of Goldman Sachs’ revenue comes from an activity that they have kept, that has been obscured from the public. It’s called securities lending.”[ii] ... Blockchain in Business: Overstock and tZERO — Patrick Bryne. September 21, 2017 (published Nov 2, 2017) at [11:39, 15:59] and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTbE8DXyjG8 [1:40:53, others] [ii] Blockchain in Business: Overstock and tZERO — Patrick Byrne. September 21, 2017 (published Nov 2, 2017) at [04:35] Blockchain in Business: Overstock and TZero - Patrick Bryne #BUSINESS NEWS AUGUST 17, 2017 / 2:46 PM / 5 MONTHS AGO U.S. pension funds sue Goldman, JPMorgan, others over stock lending market "(Reuters) - Three U.S. pension funds sued six of the world’s largest banks on Thursday, including Goldman Sachs Group Inc (GS.N) and JP Morgan Chase & Co (JPM.N), accusing them of conspiring to stifle competition in the more than $1 trillion stock lending market." ... The Iowa Public Employees’ Retirement System, Orange County Employees’ Retirement System and Sonoma County Employees’ Retirement Association said in the lawsuit that the banks have cornered the market on stock lending in violation of federal antitrust law. “Through various improper means, the likes of Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley have for years colluded to maintain their power over this little-known-but-lucrative corner of Wall Street,” said Michael Eisenkraft, a lawyer for the funds and partner with Cohen Milstein. ... The funds claimed in the lawsuit that the defendants conspired to take down upstart stock lending platforms AQS, which was developed by Quadriserv Inc, and SL-x, which would have allowed lenders and borrowers to interact directly. The lawsuit claimed that in 2012 Goldman Sachs threatened to stop doing business with Bank of New York (BNY) Mellon if it continued to support the AQS platform and that the bank agreed to stop using it. BNY Mellon declined to comment. The lawsuit said that through a joint project called EquiLend LLC, the banks purchased SL-x’s intellectual property and shelved it, according to the lawsuit. The funds accused ..." https://www.reuters.com/article/us-stocklending-lawsuit/u-s-pension-funds-sue-goldman-jpmorgan-others-over-stock-lending-market-idUSKCN1AX2NK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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