Ballinvarosig Investors Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 http://www.gurufocus.com/news/153165/prem-watsa-buys-lvlt-rimm-c-mmi-ppp-sells-kft Sandridge gets dumped heavily, Level 3 and RIM increased considerably. Small positions initiated in a miner and Motorola Mobility. Level 3 is now the third largest position, RIM the fifth largest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_Hamilton Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 I wonder what RIMM is on a cost basis. Also FRFHF's gross exposure to RIMM is larger than reported holdings given a new long total return swap on RIMM at ORH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
original mungerville Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Has Level III required a capital infusion lately or is Fairfax investing purely on their own free will? ie was an investment necessary or is this a purely offensive play? Also, does anyone know if Southeastern has increased their stake as well in Q3? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CONeal Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Has Level III required a capital infusion lately or is Fairfax investing purely on their own free will? ie was an investment necessary or is this a purely offensive play? Also, does anyone know if Southeastern has increased their stake as well in Q3? Southeastern added some shares in q3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txlaw Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 Has Level III required a capital infusion lately or is Fairfax investing purely on their own free will? ie was an investment necessary or is this a purely offensive play? Also, does anyone know if Southeastern has increased their stake as well in Q3? I haven't done the math, but a large portion of that increase in common is likely related to the conversion agreement between LVLT and FFH that was signed this summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uccmal Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 A_Hamilton, what is the totalreturn swap you are talking about Average purchase price on rimm to be closer to 40. I am thinking the holdings in Rim and A are probably under reported. The 13 F only deals with buys and sells by US subs. Canadian subs may hold another 2-3 million shares of RIM that are not required to report. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grenville Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 A_Hamilton, what is the totalreturn swap you are talking about Average purchase price on rimm to be closer to 40. I am thinking the holdings in Rim and A are probably under reported. The 13 F only deals with buys and sells by US subs. Canadian subs may hold another 2-3 million shares of RIM that are not required to report. According to the ORH Q3 NAIC filing there are two TRS wrt RIMM 40mil notional at 28.3749 (7/11/11) 40mil notional at 27.286 (7/15/11) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grenville Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 It's also interesting to see additional TRS that look to be short positions against the following: BHP Billiton 70mil at 95 (5/11/11) Freeport 62.8mil at 55.9 (5/11/11) Rio Tinto 63mil at 74.7 (5/11/11) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hester Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 It's also interesting to see additional TRS that look to be short positions against the following: BHP Billiton 70mil at 95 (5/11/11) Freeport 62.8mil at 55.9 (5/11/11) Rio Tinto 63mil at 74.7 (5/11/11) Looks like Watsa agrees with his buddy Jim Chanos, I know Chanos is short the 1st and 3rd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerbaron Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Where did the Kraft share go, did he do a total return swap on them? BeerBaron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txlaw Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Where did the Kraft share go, did he do a total return swap on them? BeerBaron Yes. In the ORH filing, there is $94 million notional TRS with $31.64 strike price. There is probably more elsewhere. Also notable are the following TRS positions at ORH: WFC -- $226 million notional at $25.45 USB -- $159 million notional at $22.17 FFH is going to make a killing on these WFC and USB total return swaps. Funny, though, how people still insist that you don't want to be in financials at these price levels. Side question. Why doesn't FFH put their insurance filings on their website? Are they barred from doing this by NAIC? If not, they should put all such filings online for the benefit of shareholders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
link01 Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Also notable are the following TRS positions at ORH: WFC -- $226 billion notional at $25.45 USB -- $159 billion notional at $22.17 thx for digging up these TRS disclosures. but i think those notional values for wfc & usb should be in millions not billions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txlaw Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Also notable are the following TRS positions at ORH: WFC -- $226 billion notional at $25.45 USB -- $159 billion notional at $22.17 thx for digging up these TRS disclosures. but i think those notional values for wfc & usb should be in millions not billions. Whoops, sorry about that! Yes, you're right. Those should be millions. I will edit. Billions in notional would have been scary, wouldn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uccmal Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 So, can someone walk me through an example of how these work for FFH? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uccmal Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 So, can someone walk me through an example of how these work for FFH? Anyone understand how these work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorsia1 Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 This is a pretty decent rundown on how these work. At least for me this was the clearest explanation. http://www.tavakolistructuredfinance.com/TRS.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ_Value Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 It's also interesting to see additional TRS that look to be short positions against the following: BHP Billiton 70mil at 95 (5/11/11) Freeport 62.8mil at 55.9 (5/11/11) Rio Tinto 63mil at 74.7 (5/11/11) Interesting. Watsa has been saying that sooner or later the natural resources/minerals guys will suffer a correction; He does put his money where his mouth is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uccmal Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Thanks dorsia1, That made more sense than about 5 other def'ns I read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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