cpan Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Totally agree with the comment about secular trough vs demise. Its just not obvious who will stand at the end. I guess its like any tech company (its hard to pick the winners). Good point about the 3DS. There does seem to be an age segment where 3ds should do well due to the toughness of the hardware as compare to an ipod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyten1 Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 alwaysinvert there is rumor that microsoft is working on an surface xbox hy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwaysinvert Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Hitting new lows. Does the market know something about the holiday season already? I haven't seen any signs in any direction yet, other than that people in my vicinity don't know squat about the Wii U (someone thought it was like the PS3 Slim). They aren't the main audience either on the other hand. An article on the TVii: http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/12/21/my-evening-with-nintendo-tvii The sports watching seems really neat. If I could get some similar functions for soccer games, I would certainly consider buying the console just for that :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItsAValueTrap Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Sometimes Amazon is a good place to do scuttlebutt research for its large number of unbiased reviews (at least, I hope that there aren't too many fake reviews on it): http://www.amazon.com/Nintendo-Wii-Console-Black-Deluxe-U/dp/B009AGXH64/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwaysinvert Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Sometimes Amazon is a good place to do scuttlebutt research for its large number of unbiased reviews (at least, I hope that there aren't too many fake reviews on it): http://www.amazon.com/Nintendo-Wii-Console-Black-Deluxe-U/dp/B009AGXH64/ Yes, I guess it has some value. I have been going on different boards to get a feel for the sentiment as well and overall it's been very positive from owners. The inherent problem is that those who bought early firstly are Nintendo fanboys for the most part and secondly will always be happier with the product than the general market. I think it was Dan Ariely who made an experiment on the value of cups to people in an auction and there was a huge gap in the appraisals of the ones who already owned the cups and what they were willing to sell them for versus those who where bidding to buy them. Even so I also think there is a skewedness in that the satisfied ones are more prone to write reviews too. Maybe the very unsatisfied people are likely to write as well, but those who find the products mediocre seldom do (and provided it's somewhat normally distributed, which seems likely, you are going to get a biased picture from that too). Just look at IMDB and you see how out of proportion 10 and 1 star ratings are, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbitisrich Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Start with the 3 star reviews. They tend to run through the pros and cons in a relatively dispassionate manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
negative alpha Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Jan. 10, 2013 With more than 460,000 units sold in December, Wii U has now sold nearly 890,000 units in the United States after only 41 days on the market, according to the NPD Group. To date, Wii U hardware sales have generated more than $300 million in the U.S. alone; Wii hardware had generated just more than $270 million at the same point in its lifecycle. http://press.nintendo.com/articles.jsp?id=36854 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
negative alpha Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Nintendo's Wii U and 3DS consoles haven't performed badly so far, but there's a real sense that they may not match their predecessors' huge success. According to a Nikkei report, however, the company plans to merge both divisions into a single unit in a month's time, and will invest 30 billion yen (about $340 million) in a new Kyoto development facility to be opened by the end of the year. The structural shift is intended to speed up development by allowing the previously separate divisions to share knowledge and technology. http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/16/3881770/nintendo-to-unify-console-and-handheld-divisions-in-major Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green King Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Nintendo's Wii U and 3DS consoles haven't performed badly so far, but there's a real sense that they may not match their predecessors' huge success. According to a Nikkei report, however, the company plans to merge both divisions into a single unit in a month's time, and will invest 30 billion yen (about $340 million) in a new Kyoto development facility to be opened by the end of the year. The structural shift is intended to speed up development by allowing the previously separate divisions to share knowledge and technology. http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/16/3881770/nintendo-to-unify-console-and-handheld-divisions-in-major WTF they are just doing that!! I thought every company that is competing have broken down their silos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwaysinvert Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 The new Animal Crossing for the 3DS is doing pretty well in Japan... Sold 2.2m copies since release in October and it's yet to be released in the West. Total top 10 weekly figures for Japan: 1 3DS Animal Crossing: New Leaf 134,535 2 3DS New Super Mario Bros. 2 92,047 3 3DS Paper Mario: Sticker Star 66,071 4 WiiU New Super Mario Bros. U 49,691 5 3DS Inazuma Eleven Go 2: Chrono Stone 49,020 6 WiiU Nintendo Land 40,920 7 PSP One Piece: Romance Dawn - Bouken no Yoake 39,802 8 3DS Fantasy Life 39,308 9 3DS Magician's Quest: Town of Magic 36,978 10 3DS Tousouchuu: Shijou Saikyou no Hunter-Tachi Kara Nigekire! 33,794 Safe to say Nintendo is dominating in the home country. And the Ipad worry is way overblown at least for the Japanese market. I do however think that Nintendo has made a mistake in not differentiating the U from the previous Wii more. People haven't really started to catch on to this new console at all, even if sales are good and seems to be supply constrained thus far (probably on purpose as usual). The pricing strategy is interesting - no one seems to want the smaller package and why should they? With its ridiculously limited harddrive the higher priced alternative compares very favourably even though the margin for those must be much better. Smart from Nintendo. http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=151051&page=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stahleyp Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 With the PS4 officially announced, has anyone taken a look any more at this one? I wouldn't at all be surprised if Nintendo gets out of hardware and goes the route of Sega. The Wii U sales have been pretty bad. http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/30/3931748/nintendo-cuts-sales-forecasts-q3-financials Assuming this happens, I wonder how much the company is worth mostly on the software side? Pokemon/Mario would be ideal for phones and Zelda and other more complex games would be big sellers on Xbox and PS4, I'd imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 With the PS4 officially announced, has anyone taken a look any more at this one? I wouldn't at all be surprised if Nintendo gets out of hardware and goes the route of Sega. The Wii U sales have been pretty bad. http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/30/3931748/nintendo-cuts-sales-forecasts-q3-financials Assuming this happens, I wonder how much the company is worth mostly on the software side? Pokemon/Mario would be ideal for phones and Zelda and other more complex games would be big sellers on Xbox and PS4, I'd imagine. Nintendo won't EVER go the way of SEGA. SEGA was poorly managed, rushing consoles and was borrowing more money than it could. Nintendo is sitting on too much cash and is very well managed. If you said Sony might go the route of SEGA I think you'd have a good point. I feel as tho Nintendo rushed the Wii U and tried to be too revolutionary a second time around. It's ok as a console but I think it lacks in 3rd party support and a strong line up of games at the moment. The PS4 sounds like it's going to be amazing but lets wait and see what the price looks like before we jump to conclusion. So far the games lined up to launch with it look unbelievably fantastic and some of the features they got are on a whole nother level. I'm curious to see what it looks like & what the price is. Nintendo will be fine long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclecticvalue Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 scc, you pretty much hit on the points of lack of 3rd party support and strong titles. I was reading that independent developers want to develop for Nintendo but Nintendo has not been friendly same with microsoft and sony. It seems Nintendo wants to survive on first party titles. Nintendo is an integrated videogame company. Not a conglomerate like Sony and Microsoft. They could take the indie games market among consoles but it seems they love their own work. The reason smartphones and PC games will do well is because the approval process for indie games is quick for smartphones. The cost to even start developing games for consoles is expensive and bureaucratic. Look at Rovio the maker for angry birds they are making bank because they can churn out variations of their games very easily. The console makers want AAA developers/publishers making big budget games but I think it will go on for so long until the crowd gets tired. For Nintendo, making games for other consoles wouldn't be great because they would not have control and be under the whim of Sony and Microsoft ( we haven't seen what console microsoft is bringing to the table) TBH, sony and microsoft haven't been innovators in the video game space. Nintendo needs to have a solid showing at E3 and release amazing first party titles and I think it will be back in business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stahleyp Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 good points, ssc. Do you think nintendo will still be making consoles/handhelds 10 years from now? Wasn't there a lot of concern (perhaps just hype) that they were going to be software only, like sega, after the lackluster success of gamecube? I just don't see it. Console gaming seems to be dying. Now, maybe because I'm getting older and I'm not into it nearly as much, but I used to love this stuff with a passion. I don't even know of anyone with a wii u. Smart phones are also rapidly replacing the need for separate handhelds. Yeah, the experience is more robust on handhelds for now, but how long will it be until that changes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 scc, you pretty much hit on the points of lack of 3rd party support and strong titles. I was reading that independent developers want to develop for Nintendo but Nintendo has not been friendly same with microsoft and sony. It seems Nintendo wants to survive on first party titles. Nintendo is an integrated videogame company. Not a conglomerate like Sony and Microsoft. They could take the indie games market among consoles but it seems they love their own work. The reason smartphones and PC games will do well is because the approval process for indie games is quick for smartphones. The cost to even start developing games for consoles is expensive and bureaucratic. Look at Rovio the maker for angry birds they are making bank because they can churn out variations of their games very easily. The console makers want AAA developers/publishers making big budget games but I think it will go on for so long until the crowd gets tired. For Nintendo, making games for other consoles wouldn't be great because they would not have control and be under the whim of Sony and Microsoft ( we haven't seen what console microsoft is bringing to the table) TBH, sony and microsoft haven't been innovators in the video game space. Nintendo needs to have a solid showing at E3 and release amazing first party titles and I think it will be back in business. I agree friend, good post. good points, ssc. Do you think nintendo will still be making consoles/handhelds 10 years from now? Wasn't there a lot of concern (perhaps just hype) that they were going to be software only, like sega, after the lackluster success of gamecube? I just don't see it. Console gaming seems to be dying. Now, maybe because I'm getting older and I'm not into it nearly as much, but I used to love this stuff with a passion. I don't even know of anyone with a wii u. Smart phones are also rapidly replacing the need for separate handhelds. Yeah, the experience is more robust on handhelds for now, but how long will it be until that changes? I most definitely do believe they'll still be around in 10 years. Nintendo has created brands that have taken lives of their own, have cult followings & are "bigger" than Nintendo. Nintendo is like the "Disney of Gaming". I don't wrong them for wanting to go the software route tho. If my 2 competitors were EXPERTS in hardware I wouldn't try to fight them at their game either. Nintendo has never been known for hardware - it was their games that set them apart from the rest. That's where their strength is & if you look throughout time they've gotten incredibly better at making them. Even if smartphones/tablets change the need, I would think Nintendo would prefer that versus having hardware to develop. I don't know the future of gaming but this shift to a more digital climate would likely favor Nintendo. You know what's crazy tho ? I was thinking about that a while ago, Nintendo when you look at the 80s till now hasn't really changed much. We just grew up. It's still the same types of games. It's just hard to feel the same way we did playing Mario Bros 3 now than it was when we were children. Our perceptions have changed, however, that's not going to stop generations of future children & moms/dads looking for games to buy for their children. I think that form of nostalgia becomes a brilliant selling point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Btw in terms of investment I think NTDOY is at a 30 year low..... As a business I don't think it's that phenomenal (I'm basing that assessment mostly on ROE) but I wouldn't turn it away just off that metric. I think if NTDOY fell much lower than it is today I would definitely grab it. It's definitely the better alternative to Sony tho.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stahleyp Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 ahh, I was re-reading this a bit ssc after you mentioned that they'll be around 10 years from now. I firmly believe that as well. I don't think I was clear after re-reading my sega comment. I didn't mean they (though I can see how you might have inferred it - my bad) that they'd be gone. I simply meant they'd be out of the hardware business. I do think there is an excellent chance that wii u will be there last traditional console and maybe one more version of a handheld. But I wonder how much the business is worth software only? That is a very real and distinct possibility. Do you guys think they'll still be doing hardware 10 years from now?' by the way, I believe it was in the $9s in 2003 and $7 in 1994(ADRs) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyten1 Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 stahleyp i didn't check it myself, but did ntdoy have as much cash as they have now back in 2003 and 1994 what was their ev back then, i guess can't just solely look at the stocks per share i guess put it another way when did ntdoy have the lowest EV per share now or in 2003, 1994? hy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stahleyp Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 hyten, I don't know but I doubt they had nearly as much cash in 94, but I found 2003's information. I went to check but it's not on there site. http://www.nintendo.com/corp/annual_report.jsp For 03 they had about $6.3 billion cash/st investments. Now they have $14 billion (and a total of about $4 in liabilities - 2011). We're not even talking about any other assets. Now, if someone could take control of the company, this could work out really, really well. How do we know they won't spend it on bringing out new consoles? I'd buy that the games/franchises are worth significantly more than $3 billion (I think the total market cap is $13 billion). For what it's worth, I hope Nintendo does well. I had Super Mario wallpaper trim and giant stickers in my bed room growing up! 8) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwaysinvert Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Pretty much no blockbusters are out for Wii U yet - Mario Kart, Zelda, 3d Mario etc. In addition we don't even know what games some of their studios, like for example Retro Studios, are working on. I don't quite get why the early release schedule for the U is THAT empty (it's common that there is a bit of a no-mans-land after the release titles because developers want to be in for the launch and holiday season) since that's exactly the problem that lead in part to the early price drop on the 3DS. The line-up for the 3DS looks very strong, with among other things Pokemon coming out in the fall and Animal Crossing due for release in the West. I just can't see the scenario where they squander their cash. In this pretty severe trough they haven't lost that much money and cashflows are bound to be better in the next few years with hardware sales hitting breakeven/profitability and the user base being bigger. I'ts nigh impossible to quantify the upside in this case but the downside is what? Worst case they'll not turn profitable and will just sit on most of the cash, but even in that case I don't see how you lose out all that much at today's price. Not even if the yen falls further because much of the cash is in other currencies and they will be able to make higher margins on sales abroad in such a case. Sure, the sales have shifted more towards Japan in the recent slump but I think it's still reasonable that they will make 60-70% of their business abroad in the coming years. I STILL don't own any stock, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stahleyp Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 what's stopping you from pulling the trigger, invert? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclecticvalue Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Check this article out and the video http://www.polygon.com/2013/3/12/4089612/shigeru-miyamoto-interview-wii-u-3ds It explains very well what is Nintendo's secret sauce. The comments are a good read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwaysinvert Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 I don't know if anyone else is following E3, but Nintendo's presentation focusing on the Wii U is coming up shortly. Should be interesting to see what they have up their sleeve to salvage the Wii U sales. Neither Sony or Microsoft (especially not Microsoft) lit the world on fire with their presentations, so the table is set for Nintendo to 'win' E3. Expected major stuff: New Mario Kart New Mario 3D game New Super Smash Bros Unveiling of Monolith Softs game (probably a new Xeno-game) Unveiling of Retro Studios title (possibly new Metroid game) Some previously unknown titles from internal Nintendo divisions Possibly a new Zelda will be discussed too (apart from the rebooting of Wind Waker), but that title is most probably further out than the other ones. http://e3.nintendo.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyten1 Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 i have a small position in ntdoy http://www.theverge.com/2013/6/12/4422020/why-nintendo-wont-make-smartphone-games very interesting, i am still thinking about this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LC Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 I totally agree. For Nintendo, their lifeline is their blockbuster characters. Mario sells Wii units, not the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now