Questions for the early 'retirees' on the board

[racemize]

Although setting up things in a professional way with office and all that is a cost issue, too. I would either have to move to a bigger place where I could set up a home office or rent an office somewhere. While, I am 'rich' I really can't afford unnecessary costs so that would be something I would have to think about even if it would be ideal to do it that way.

 

My two cents on working from home (I do this 4 days a week for my job):

 

1) have a decent set up that you can sit and be happy with for hours. 

2) always wear pajamas! (but be sure you are dedicated to work, if you need regular clothes for it, then do that, but I never have any issues with getting things done)

3) take naps in the afternoon (amazing).

[alwaysinvert]

I am currently struggling a bit with the decision of either going to school (late, I'm in my mid 20s) or just keep on managing the money I have earned over the last few years (+$1.5m, mainly through online poker, so I am no stranger to mentally strenous work with volatility and a fair amount of lonely work). The only thing I am truly interested in pursuing at this point in time is investing. I have had pretty good, market-beating, results over the last few years but am of course a novice compared to most of you. Sadly, at this point there is pretty much no possibility legally to try my hand at managing other peoples' money.

 

I am asking to get some wisdom about the obstacles and routines of only investing for a living from some more experienced people on the board. Do you have an office away from home? Regular work hours? Are there some people who have had to go back to regular work because it was too taxing? All input is welcome.

 

Are you interested in investing or building wealth? 

 

If you are in it for the intellectual challenge of investing, you can enjoy the process with a small or large portfolio, and you can do it fulltime or part time. As long as you keep your expenses under control, you can continue on for years doing what you are doing now.

 

But if you are interesting in building wealth over your lifetime (and you have many years to go!), then I believe you are best off finding a way to leverage your considerable talents through employment or the ownership of a business.  In order to build wealth with $1.5mm you need to keep expenses under $30,000/year and that may be incompatible with your lifestyle especially if you plan on having a family.  Game theory talents go a long way in the fields of money management, real estate, financial trading, and any number of other businesses.  Combine these talents with good ethics and the ability to get along with others, with the considerable leverage and scale afforded from a larger organization, and you will build wealth at a much faster rate than growing your personal portfolio. 

 

When you build enough personal wealth that this is no longer the case (as I did when I was in my late 40's) you can walk away if you choose and live a life of complete freedom.

Both! I love the process of investing and I want to get richer. But optimizing my total wealth creation is not necessary if from that follows doing things which are less interesting or stimulating to me than investing (i.e a career in a large company or something like that)

 

When did u start playing it? If you feel that's sustainable, keep doing it, why change if things work?

I started in 2005 (before I was of legal age) and have pretty much never looked back. I was well-off even before my 18th birthday. I realize that I am a lottery winner in pretty much every sense. Yes, it has taken a lot of hard work but not nearly as much as the regular self-made man who is a dollar millionaire. I also don't have even close to the skillsets that a business millionaire has. I'm pretty much just as unqualified as a lottery winner, maybe a bit luckier genetically than the average one but that won't help me all that much.

[ragnarisapirate]

I've been debating about going back to school as well (BA in General Studies that I totally slacked off in getting). Problem for me is, is that I want to take a bunch of different classes, and places around here tend to frown on not having a Masters program picked out. From where I already have a degree that creates a problem. If only I had the money to donate to them so that there would be a Masters/PHD in General Studies (or, University Studies), I'd be set. Regardless, college was the best time of my life, and I would hate to think that there are people out there that couldn't do it, just for the social aspects.

 

You are dead on with girls and the "unemployed" mindset. In my experience, they often come up with that or the "wow. I have always wanted to know how to do that" line, which to me, they (and really, people in general) say just because they don't know what else to. Regardless, both of which have gotten annoying.

 

As such, I have made an effort to guide conversations away from what I do.

 

In my case, I generally work from home, but also have rent houses that provide me with stuff to occasionally do. Also, I have become a big fan of reading 10Ks and such while sitting in a bar or coffee shop. In the same vein as Sanjeev, I joke that I will eventually get my mail forwarded there, actually. ;)

 

Bottom line is, like with investing and poker, you are probably going to have to continue finding out what works for you... When you do, please post! :)

[ageofsocrates]

my advice. Travel around the world. Go to Asia- China and India. Will really change ur perspective on things

 

ageofsocrates

singapore

[Morgan]

my advice. Travel around the world. Go to Asia- China and India. Will really change ur perspective on things

 

If you do this I think it can be done relatively affordably. This guy (http://gsguy.wordpress.com/) rode 250,000 (150k? I can't remember) miles through the world on a motorcycle over 2.5 years for about $100,000. If you have the cash and are interested in that kind of thing, it might be something to look at.

[Smazz]

My advice to everyone: DONT PLAY POKER AGAINST THIS GUY!!!!!!!!  8)

 

Seriously, I cant believe people saying they are too bored managing their own $.

 

I guess if that was all you were doing with your life - maybe but, it just seems like there is not enough time to do the research while managing my other interests.

 

For instance:

I run my own hockey league. Why do I do this? Well, the other leagues I played in got just too crazy. The Owners of the leagues only cared about $ they didnt care about getting rid of idiots.

So, I made my own league, with my own rules, allowing only those people I knew to play in. Granted, you have to have a big social network with like minded interests to do this sort of thing.

 

I do excericise though not as much as I used to or would like to.

 

Volunteer work is great. If you can't or wont give up of your time, again  you can set up some very nice fund raisers. I do this a few times a year also.

 

Look into starting your own on line Poker site. Thats right, I said it!!!! ;D

 

Good luck. You dont need it! ;)

[king888]

my advice. Travel around the world. Go to Asia- China and India. Will really change ur perspective on things

 

I second that .You should travel ariund when you are still young and healthy.you might find a nice country to settle/study also. Last week, I met a 24-year old Danish man who sold his Facebook service tool for multi million$ and then moved to live in my city. He is starting a new venture from here becuase he likes to live here after travalling around Asia.

[eclecticvalue]

I would say start or buy a business. You could try working for a start up on the business development/ finance side. University is a good option and you can turn that into a career or start a business while in university and meet new people. I feel you want to do something entrepreneurial in the long run. Developing a technical background and creating businesses from those technical skills would be cool. Users mentioned traveling, that would be great since you have the money and not only you would enjoy traveling to new places. You could create businesses in those areas especially emerging and frontier markets.

[Cardboard]

"Someone that you have met for 5 minutes and you pop up and say "Hey I have 1.5 million."  I'm sure your realize your mistake when she switches from $2 beer to $8 fruity drinks."

 

Unless you like to brag about your money, you generally don't like disclosing what you have or what you make. Hence, it is just amazing to me how little imagination most people have regarding investing and how lucrative it can be. They see your nice car, nice home, you tell them what you do and they can't still figure out that you are essentially making professional athlete income. Sad to say, but the strippers are the ones that I have found realizing the quickest what is really going on.  :o

 

Cardboard

[Parsad]

In general, I would say play poker, invest, socialize, exercise, contribute to your community, learn something new every year, and of course, when in doubt, f*ck.

 

I couldn't stop laughing at the last part!  I guess he's right.  ;D  Cheers!

 

[Parsad]

Online poker has gotten a lot less lucrative in the last 2 years or so. People I know who made loads of money when I also did are barely winners now (poker bots and the art of finding easy targets have been refined to an almost crazy extent), so going back to playing online is not really a live option. I do however still go and play live games from time to time. They can never yield the same hourly wage because they are imminently slower, but they will probably always be soft for someone like me. Going full-out live pro would however force me to move far away from here and it's not really appealing in terms of social life and working hours.

 

Buy a condo in Vegas for less than $100K, and play real people at the casinos 3-4 times a week, four months out of the year.  The rest of the time, manage your own money and go do your CFA, or study what you want if you don't really want to invest other people's money.

 

Even pooling money from family and friends and managing it for a fee is not really legal here. Providing financial advice or assistance requires registering with our SEC and that is really costly.

 

Where are you and under what rule do you have to register?  Unless you are giving investment advice and acting as a financial advisor, you do not have to register with the SEC unless you are managing $100M in assets in virtually every U.S. jurisdiction that I'm aware of. 

 

Regardless, whatever you decide, you have a pretty darn good problem to deal with...I'm in my 20's, financially independent and can choose to do whatever the hell I want with my life.  Wow!  I'm pretty sure half this board would trade places with you in a heartbeat!  ;D  Cheers!

[Parsad]

My two cents on working from home (I do this 4 days a week for my job):

 

1) have a decent set up that you can sit and be happy with for hours. 

2) always wear pajamas! (but be sure you are dedicated to work, if you need regular clothes for it, then do that, but I never have any issues with getting things done)

3) take naps in the afternoon (amazing).

 

Racemize, either you are unemployed or Mohnish Pabrai!  And I know you're not Mohnish!  ;D 

 

I can't get a lot of work done from home, so that's why I have an office downtown and I work from Starbucks on Fridays near my house and gym.  If I stay at home, there are too many distractions.  Cheers!

[Parsad]

Volunteer work is great. If you can't or wont give up of your time, again  you can set up some very nice fund raisers. I do this a few times a year also.

 

Look into starting your own on line Poker site. Thats right, I said it!!!!

 

Good luck. You dont need it!

 

Couldn't agree more!  Volunteering is a great idea.  And if you are seeing problems with poker sites, maybe it is time to create one that will attract some of the type of players you are friends with.  Although I see legal problems being even more costly there than a fund.  Cheers!

 

[racemize]

My two cents on working from home (I do this 4 days a week for my job):

 

1) have a decent set up that you can sit and be happy with for hours. 

2) always wear pajamas! (but be sure you are dedicated to work, if you need regular clothes for it, then do that, but I never have any issues with getting things done)

3) take naps in the afternoon (amazing).

 

Racemize, either you are unemployed or Mohnish Pabrai!  And I know you're not Mohnish!  ;D 

 

I can't get a lot of work done from home, so that's why I have an office downtown and I work from Starbucks on Fridays near my house and gym.  If I stay at home, there are too many distractions.  Cheers!

 

I'm the only one at home during the day (other than my dog), so I don't have much distractions (though she pretty much stares at me all day wondering how I could possibly be so boring).  I've actually found that my days at home are at least 1.5x more productive than my day in the office (currently doing 4x10 hour days, 3 at home, 1 at work, +friday for stocks).  I'm also terrible at coffee shops, so its my only real option.

[Liberty]

My two cents on working from home (I do this 4 days a week for my job):

 

1) have a decent set up that you can sit and be happy with for hours. 

2) always wear pajamas! (but be sure you are dedicated to work, if you need regular clothes for it, then do that, but I never have any issues with getting things done)

3) take naps in the afternoon (amazing).

 

Racemize, either you are unemployed or Mohnish Pabrai!  And I know you're not Mohnish!  ;D 

 

I can't get a lot of work done from home, so that's why I have an office downtown and I work from Starbucks on Fridays near my house and gym.  If I stay at home, there are too many distractions.  Cheers!

 

I work from home in my pajamas, and I'm not Monish  :)

 

For some people it works, for some not. I would not have it any other way, personally.

[Kraven]

If you work from home the only way to get anything done is in black tie unless it's a Friday in which case a nice suit will do. Otherwise you're not really working.

[oddballstocks]

My two cents on working from home (I do this 4 days a week for my job):

 

1) have a decent set up that you can sit and be happy with for hours. 

2) always wear pajamas! (but be sure you are dedicated to work, if you need regular clothes for it, then do that, but I never have any issues with getting things done)

3) take naps in the afternoon (amazing).

 

Racemize, either you are unemployed or Mohnish Pabrai!  And I know you're not Mohnish!  ;D 

 

I can't get a lot of work done from home, so that's why I have an office downtown and I work from Starbucks on Fridays near my house and gym.  If I stay at home, there are too many distractions.  Cheers!

 

I work from home in my pajamas, and I'm not Monish  :)

 

For some people it works, for some not. I would not have it any other way, personally.

 

I work from home as well, and my family's at home during the day.  There's work that needs to get done so I just do it.  There is a 'fantasy' to it for the first week or so, all the around the house distractions.  Those go away and then it's just the normal routine.

[zippy1]

If you work from home the only way to get anything done is in black tie unless it's a Friday in which case a nice suit will do. Otherwise you're not really working.

Ha! Ha! Ha!

That is a really good one!

[alwaysinvert]

Online poker has gotten a lot less lucrative in the last 2 years or so. People I know who made loads of money when I also did are barely winners now (poker bots and the art of finding easy targets have been refined to an almost crazy extent), so going back to playing online is not really a live option. I do however still go and play live games from time to time. They can never yield the same hourly wage because they are imminently slower, but they will probably always be soft for someone like me. Going full-out live pro would however force me to move far away from here and it's not really appealing in terms of social life and working hours.

 

Buy a condo in Vegas for less than $100K, and play real people at the casinos 3-4 times a week, four months out of the year.  The rest of the time, manage your own money and go do your CFA, or study what you want if you don't really want to invest other people's money.

Sadly, the house prices in Vegas also reflects the way the action has gone away from there, from what I have heard. Macau is where it's at these days. But your idea is good in essence. I am planning some trips in the near future. Actually moving for half the year would be a big step, though.

 

Gambling cities are quite depressing to me, there really isn't that much going on but depravity. Fun for a week or two maybe, but not really an environment you ideally would choose long-term. Many people have this romanticised view of poker pros as calculating masterminds, but most of them really are just action junkies scraping by on massive amounts of loans, and they have far less money in the bank than you would think. Especially on the live scene.

 

Even pooling money from family and friends and managing it for a fee is not really legal here. Providing financial advice or assistance requires registering with our SEC and that is really costly.

 

Where are you and under what rule do you have to register?  Unless you are giving investment advice and acting as a financial advisor, you do not have to register with the SEC unless you are managing $100M in assets in virtually every U.S. jurisdiction that I'm aware of. 

Sweden. Our rules are A LOT stricter than yours in this area. I have read them through and through and there really is no way to make this happen while still being cheap and legal at the same time. You could get around legal restrictions by forming a sort of a stock club (a legal entity which I don't think the US has any equivalent for), but it has significant downside when it comes to taxes and I would have to charge some insane fee (probably over 2% of assets, obviously a bit depending on AUM) to make it worthwhile for me. Maybe in the future there will be an opportunity to get control over some cheap micro cap company instead :)

 

Regardless, whatever you decide, you have a pretty darn good problem to deal with...I'm in my 20's, financially independent and can choose to do whatever the hell I want with my life.  Wow!  I'm pretty sure half this board would trade places with you in a heartbeat!  ;D  Cheers!

Haha, yes. I hope you guys don't get the impression that I'm whining, I count my blessings. But being fortunate doesn't eliminate the need to make some choices :)

[Parsad]

If you work from home the only way to get anything done is in black tie unless it's a Friday in which case a nice suit will do. Otherwise you're not really working.

 

Guys, I wasn't being critical of him working from home...I was joking about his pajamas and naps!  Cheers!

[Parsad]

Sweden. Our rules are A LOT stricter than yours in this area. I have read them through and through and there really is no way to make this happen while still being cheap and legal at the same time.

 

Ah, I see!  So living in Vegas would be a huge step too.  Instead, keep playing poker, accumulate some more money, and see if you can buy a piece of Modo!  ;D  Or just fly to Vancouver and watch a Canucks game...we have half the national Swedish team playing for us.  Cheers!

[Kraven]

If you work from home the only way to get anything done is in black tie unless it's a Friday in which case a nice suit will do. Otherwise you're not really working.

 

Guys, I wasn't being critical of him working from home...I was joking about his pajamas and naps!  Cheers!

 

I knew that. I was just saying what I thought was proper for an optimal work experience.

[Parsad]

If you work from home the only way to get anything done is in black tie unless it's a Friday in which case a nice suit will do. Otherwise you're not really working.

 

Guys, I wasn't being critical of him working from home...I was joking about his pajamas and naps!  Cheers!

 

I knew that. I was just saying what I thought was proper for an optimal work experience.

 

By the way, I thought you were over-reaching on Friday...you know that you still need to wear a tie and not open collar!  ;D  Cheers!

[alwaysinvert]

Sweden. Our rules are A LOT stricter than yours in this area. I have read them through and through and there really is no way to make this happen while still being cheap and legal at the same time.

 

Ah, I see!  So living in Vegas would be a huge step too.  Instead, keep playing poker, accumulate some more money, and see if you can buy a piece of Modo!  ;D  Or just fly to Vancouver and watch a Canucks game...we have half the national Swedish team playing for us.  Cheers!

I'm from the southern parts where soccer is the be all and end all of sports, but when I come to Vancouver I will let you sell me on hockey if you'll let me probe your mind for value wisdoms ;)

 

Someone made the suggestion earlier that I should make contacts by going to conferences and contacting people in the business, and I'll be sure to do that more than I have before. I have met a couple of very impressive CEOs of some smaller companies. They are usually very acommodating in explaining how things work if you show genuine interest and some pre-knowledge.

 

Thanks for all the great answers. I will get back to you on how everything goes.

[Smazz]

Alwaysinvert,

I would like to read (maybe its own thread?) on how you started from ? and growing it to $1.5M through online poker. Just for leisure interest of time lines and Im sure the drama that must have accompanied the ascent!

 

Don't worry, I DO NOT intend to try to replicate your feat through poker. I can't even get through 2min of watching the stuff on TV!  Every time I feel like relaxing on the couch (away from my computer/phone) I will click it on the sports station and then I curse when I realize they are broadcasting a poker tourney!

 

Everyone in my family loves poker except me.

 

Whatever you do with your $, similar to what the others have warned,  BE CAREFUL of SPENDING ON SWEDISH TWIN DANCERS!!!!!!