Hawk4value Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 Seems to me that they are going to try and operate the business which I think is a mistake. Was excited with the possibility of the company becoming an investment vechicle for Chou, etc. Now that does not seem to be happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsad Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 well they are out on sedar http://www.sedar.com/DisplayCompanyDocuments.do?lang=EN&issuerNo=00027273 Nothing new though 1st quarter is not out. That is year-end. We helped Rainmaker find the new CFO, Shawn Turkington. He's probably one of the most sound technical accountants Alnesh and I know of. If you read the year-end annual report, you'll see disclosure has improved markedly. I'm sure the quarterly reports will also be better. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsad Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 well they are out on sedar http://www.sedar.com/DisplayCompanyDocuments.do?lang=EN&issuerNo=00027273 Nothing new though Appears to have shrunk quite significantly since last year. Assets, liabilities, equity down significantly. This should be reversed with results of Escape in this quarter. Certainly cheap. About 40 cents of net assets, mostly cash like assets selling for 16 cents. Risky, with decent chance of RNK being a value trap or mistake unless they can turn profits from projects they have committed to. Is this a good business? I want to say no. High risk high reward is my impression. Then why are the major shareholders willing to put more money in and commit themselves to several new movie projects. I am thinking that it is to use up tax credits. Disclosure: I have a very small amount purchased at 20 cents. Investment thesis has changed since I bought ie purchase fell thru. I bought initially with the thought that there great people, decent investors taking over, selling at a significant discount. Actually a graham net net. Crappy business that has lost a lot money but that perhaps mckelvin, Chou, etc would get into other more profitable ventures. Feels like my experience at sears with lambert trying to turn around crappy retailer. Looks like a 2 legged stool, and I am afraid I am going to fall off. There is still value there but more risk. Very illiquid and unless you buy the debenture you will be diluted significantly. What do you do? What are others thinking? What do you do when your original investment thesis changes. Are you not suppose to sell? There's no point to add a third leg to a stool, as long as one of the other two are still loose! ;D This is a tough business (which business is easy, right), but they have to stabilize it first to monetize all of the NOL's and tax credits. Otherwise the value proposition isn't nearly as good. If they can get the animation business going consistently, then they can add that third leg...which is what I'm betting on, and I'm willing to help them in any way I can to get it there, because it is unlikely I'll ever own so much of a business that Tim, Francis and Jeff own. You start to generate cash from the animation business and its assets, you can always funnel it to other ideas. But if the animation business doesn't work, then there are no assets to put into anything else. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biaggio Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 Makes cents. Priced like a call option-can lose 20 cents but have potential to make multiple of that. I still find it interesting that folks that are passive investors and manage tens of millions of dollar would bother with a fraction of a company that is selling for $3.5 million. I know that they are smart guys so there has to be pony in there somewhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsad Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 Makes cents. Priced like a call option-can lose 20 cents but have potential to make multiple of that. I still find it interesting that folks that are passive investors and manage tens of millions of dollar would bother with a fraction of a company that is selling for $3.5 million. I know that they are smart guys so there has to be pony in there somewhere There's $32M in NOL's! Also, like I said in the previous post...unlikely that you will get this congregation of value investors, who are also friends, in a company ever again as most of their shares were bought long ago when the company was far larger. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biaggio Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 $32 million NOL, might be a dumb question but do they need to be in the same industry/business to use them? That would explain their logic if that is the case. Any estimates out there on how much money if any is coming to RNK from film Escape from earth, considering that so far there seems to a profit of around $13 million on it according to that box office website with the daily attendances -http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=escapefromplanetearth.htm Any guesses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsad Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 $32 million NOL, might be a dumb question but do they need to be in the same industry/business to use them? That would explain their logic if that is the case. Any estimates out there on how much money if any is coming to RNK from film Escape from earth, considering that so far there seems to a profit of around $13 million on it according to that box office website with the daily attendances Any guesses? The same entity has to utilize the NOL's, but not necessarily the same industry to some extent. Some of that $32M is in the form of tax credits I would presume, and those have to be in the same industry. I don't know what their hurdles are regarding revenues before they get paid anything, so there is no way to tell until they disclose. We also don't know if you have to include any marketing expense by the Weinsteins, what portion goes to the lawsuit settlement, etc. It's somewhat complicated until shareholders find out directly from the company where they stand. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valuecfa Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 $32 million NOL, might be a dumb question but do they need to be in the same industry/business to use them? That would explain their logic if that is the case. Any estimates out there on how much money if any is coming to RNK from film Escape from earth, considering that so far there seems to a profit of around $13 million on it according to that box office website with the daily attendances Any guesses? The same entity has to utilize the NOL's, but not necessarily the same industry to some extent. Some of that $32M is in the form of tax credits I would presume, and those have to be in the same industry. I don't know what their hurdles are regarding revenues before they get paid anything, so there is no way to tell until they disclose. We also don't know if you have to include any marketing expense by the Weinsteins, what portion goes to the lawsuit settlement, etc. It's somewhat complicated until shareholders find out directly from the company where they stand. Cheers! I don't follow this company at all, but... typically, it doesn't have to be the same industry at least not in US accounting...but the NOLs probably aren't worth more than a few million depending on how long it takes them to utilize them, if at all. In fact, i think the company only values them at about $1.5 million, or about 2 million if you include the ones without an allowance. I don't know what that mineral property tax asset is (didn't look into it), but that would add another million or so according to the financials edit: i think i was looking at a late 2012 filing, so they may have moved a little since then...the Canadian disclosures are a little different than here in the US as i couldn't see a disclosure in the most recent annual financials...had to look at an 'interim" statement. By the way, nothing against Canadians, but Sedar really sucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsad Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Details on new film project that was announced: http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngaudiosi/2013/04/23/sony-playstation-franchise-ratchet-and-clank-goes-hollywood-with-3d-feature-film/ Not familiar with the game, but it looks like there is a substantial built-in audience. With lower production costs as the game animation can be translated to CGI easier, it will be interesting to see what the total cost ends up being and then how much in revenue the film eventually generates. Great trailer for the movie by the way! Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stahleyp Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 are the US pinksheets shares equal to 1:1 on the Canadian market? The symbol is RNKFF. The price is 2 cents higher over here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncommonprofits Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 The most positive part I find about this is the massive established captive audience. I don't think it would be too much of a stretch to consider each of the 26 million copies of the game sold represents a single movie ticket purchase. So say $300 million world wide box office potential based on the existing fan base alone (and a wild guess at the average ticket price come 2015). One might even assume the plus side of this as many of those that bought the game were adults or will be young adults by 2015 so would pay a premium price as opposed to kids - and also there is the 3D premium factor to consider. [Edit: Serious flaw in my thinking here -- see below] Perhaps not all that bought a copy are huge fans and quite possible that not All will attend the movie. But to off-set this you have those that will go twice (or more) and those that are adults that perhaps drag along a partner or child (etc) with them. I see this film as having significantly higher box office potential than the Escape film based on the current established audience alone . Broadening the audience further could make this an outstanding success (consider that this film is probably more designed for kids, yet you have a captive group of adults - young and older) . Yet, I agree - I don't see this costing any more than Escape to produce - it might be less. [EDIT: I made a big mistake in my assumptions here. The 26 million copies sold represent about a dozen individual game releases. So a conservative view of the current fan base might be 2-3 million -- 5 million if you really push it I suppose. But definitely NOT the 26 million that I was assuming. I still think they can do better than Escape with this -- but $300 million in world wide box office revenue isn't the slam dunk that I was mistakenly thinking. They would definitely have some work to do to get that kind of following and achieve that kind of success.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rwmcpar Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 People here seem to be giving the trailer good reviews. I would consider these people the die hard fans that would go see the movie no matter what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsad Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 I see this film as having significantly higher box office potential than the Escape film based on the current established audience alone . Broadening the audience further could make this an outstanding success (consider that this film is probably more designed for kids, yet you have a captive group of adults - young and older) . Yet, I agree - I don't see this costing any more than Escape to produce - it might be less. I don't see this costing anywhere near what Escape did. Remember, Escape had multiple rewrites and there were plenty of issues on the storyline...the animation was done and had to be redone because of this. With this production, alot of the illustrative models and characters are already defined, as it is a video game. So transfering these designs to CGI/animation will be much easier and cheaper. This movie is also the work that the studio needed in the interim, to get it to the work they expect to come in for 2014 and on. So as interim work, there seems to be considerable profit potential as the majority producer. We also have no idea if Rainmaker will work on, or participate in any of the profits from a possible game being bundled with the movie release. So alot of positives and things yet to see. Should be interesting! Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncommonprofits Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 I see this film as having significantly higher box office potential than the Escape film based on the current established audience alone . Broadening the audience further could make this an outstanding success (consider that this film is probably more designed for kids, yet you have a captive group of adults - young and older) . Yet, I agree - I don't see this costing any more than Escape to produce - it might be less. I don't see this costing anywhere near what Escape did. Remember, Escape had multiple rewrites and there were plenty of issues on the storyline...the animation was done and had to be redone because of this. With this production, alot of the illustrative models and characters are already defined, as it is a video game. So transfering these designs to CGI/animation will be much easier and cheaper. This movie is also the work that the studio needed in the interim, to get it to the work they expect to come in for 2014 and on. So as interim work, there seems to be considerable profit potential as the majority producer. We also have no idea if Rainmaker will work on, or participate in any of the profits from a possible game being bundled with the movie release. So alot of positives and things yet to see. Should be interesting! Cheers! I don't disagree with this at all - was just making some comments that I think could be pretty conservative. I definitely think the odds here are very favorable. I wonder at what point in the process this opportunity came up. This opportunity to me looks far better than the all out sale to Xing, Xing contemplated not that long ago. Did this opportunity perhaps come up during that sale process -- and thereby considered a superior proposal that Xing Xing could not match? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsad Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 I see this film as having significantly higher box office potential than the Escape film based on the current established audience alone . Broadening the audience further could make this an outstanding success (consider that this film is probably more designed for kids, yet you have a captive group of adults - young and older) . Yet, I agree - I don't see this costing any more than Escape to produce - it might be less. I don't see this costing anywhere near what Escape did. Remember, Escape had multiple rewrites and there were plenty of issues on the storyline...the animation was done and had to be redone because of this. With this production, alot of the illustrative models and characters are already defined, as it is a video game. So transfering these designs to CGI/animation will be much easier and cheaper. This movie is also the work that the studio needed in the interim, to get it to the work they expect to come in for 2014 and on. So as interim work, there seems to be considerable profit potential as the majority producer. We also have no idea if Rainmaker will work on, or participate in any of the profits from a possible game being bundled with the movie release. So alot of positives and things yet to see. Should be interesting! Cheers! I don't disagree with this at all - was just making some comments that I think could be pretty conservative. I definitely think the odds here are very favorable. I wonder at what point in the process this opportunity came up. This opportunity to me looks far better than the all out sale to Xing, Xing contemplated not that long ago. Did this opportunity perhaps come up during that sale process -- and thereby considered a superior proposal that Xing Xing could not match? No, I believe this came after they hired Michael Hefferon. Escape got them alot of attention, but they needed something to fill the pipeline until more work came in from that success. Tim and Craig went to Francis and Jeff to get the funding to make it happen. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsad Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Beutel Family buys into Rainmaker. Tim sold some of his shares to the Beutel Family's holding company. A lot of deep pockets suddenly around Rainmaker...me likey! Cheers! http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/oakwest-corporation-limited-announces-acquisition-common-shares-rainmaker-entertainment-1796964.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncommonprofits Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 Beutel Family buys into Rainmaker. Tim sold some of his shares to the Beutel Family's holding company. A lot of deep pockets suddenly around Rainmaker...me likey! Cheers! http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/oakwest-corporation-limited-announces-acquisition-common-shares-rainmaker-entertainment-1796964.htm Tim sold the exact same number of common shares to Cavan (whereby Craig Graham is a shareholder, director and officer). http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/cavan-consulting-limited-announces-acquisition-common-shares-rainmaker-entertainment-1796679.htm So with the two combined sales, Tim has sold about 3.55 million common shares in RNK -- but retains at this point about 1.963 million common plus $2.25 million debentures convertible into 11.25 million shares. http://sedar.com/GetFile.do?lang=EN&docClass=13&issuerNo=00027273&fileName=/csfsprod/data143/filings/02071790/00000001/i%3A%5C1SEDAR%5C549371%5CAEWR%5C052013AEWRRainmaker.pdf So while RNK structured this in their best interest - Tim ends up creating some great value within his partnership in tax losses. Just guessing - but I assume the $635 K increase in debentures mentioned in the above relates to the debentures that McElvaine back stopped -- if so this amounts to almost 3.2 million if converted. This is almost as much as the 3.55 million in common shares sold. So very little is lost, and so much is gained through the tax loss created (perhaps around $8 million assuming an average cost base of just under $2.50ish ??). So while making a nice couple transactions to benefit the McElvaine partnership - RNK is being provided some great benefit here as well. Having Beutel on board along with the others is very good to see. And having our CEO now own a significant ownership position is a good vote of confidence and commitment. I really like the ownership balance taken place here, and the fair and equitable means in which it happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stahleyp Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Are they doing something special with Redbox? If you rent Escape from Planet Earth, you get a $5 coupon to buy the movie. I've used Redbox a lot and have never seen that before. http://www.redbox.com/movies/escape-from-planet-earth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncommonprofits Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Another PlayStation title taking to the Big Screen with RNK again taking a lead role both in producing and investing in the animated film. Sly Cooper is scheduled for early 2016 theater release. http://www.rainmaker.com/?/site/news/86 As I write this, the movie trailer is not posted on RNK’s website yet — but has been included with several press releases today such as this one: http://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/sly-cooper-movie-stealing-theater-screens-early-2016/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncommonprofits Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 I'm not sure when/if it will be released to large population foreign countries. So far I see only release dates for a few countries (Russia, Iceland, Australia, New Zealand, Argentina and Taiwan - see http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0765446/releaseinfo?ref_=tt_dt_dt). But nothing for the countries that I suspect could move the needle (UK, Germany, France, Japan, etc)... Not sure why the significant delay - but Escape is finally being released to theaters in the UK this weekend. France on May 7. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0765446/releaseinfo Box office revenue could be limited If already released on DVD to these countries - perhaps some figures will be out in a week or two to see how the UK opening went. There was a little bit of fanfare coinciding with UK opening weekend: http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/367497/Stephen-Fry-and-Olivia-Coleman-turn-out-for-Escape-From-Planet-Earth-screening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncommonprofits Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Linked below is a very thorough analysis of RNK on Seeking Alpha. Note the very cautious valuation particularly with regard to the feature film (Ratchet and Clank) which is still expected in theaters this year. While the value of future feature film cash generation is acknowledged - the estimated worth takes a very cautious approach in valuing Only the cash proceeds of the R&C movie based on certain scenarios (less the cost to produce). It's a very good write-up. http://seekingalpha.com/article/3081746-rainmaker-entertainment-undiscovered-animation-studio-with-large-value-dislocation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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