thefatbaboon Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 ABM, Thanks for the interesting update! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munger_Disciple Posted April 6, 2017 Share Posted April 6, 2017 Can someone point me to the recorded conference call (or a transcript of it) conducted by Maffei & Duncan after the General Communication deal was announced? TIA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saltybit Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 http://www.yetanothervalueblog.com/2017/07/liberty-ventures-gci-merger-set-to.html Liberty Ventures GCI merger set to unlock significant value $LVNTA $GNCMA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABM Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 The blog post was great and I found it well researched and rationalized. My one critique is it fails to mentions the Zinterhofer dimension, which I consider an important variable. Anyone consider the Searchlight/Zinterhofer connection here? I find it curious that Zinterhofer joined the GNMCA board, just in 2015, and that he appears to have deep Malone connections. This includes he is Chairman of the Board at CHTR and is Malone's partner in Lat AM where he owns a portion of the Liberty Puerto Rico asset that is co-owned with LILAK. He is also a vendor to LILAK through his Hemishpere Media Group (HMTV) interest. I am wondering more if this meant to be a flip given the asset appears distressed and Malone foresaw the value this asset could have in a scaled operator like CHTR (think programming) but was small enough to fall off the radar. Further, the Vz asset increases in attractiveness to a scaled cable co as they position themselves to negotiate for their spot in a wireless/wireline converged world (e.g. quad play) increasing its value to the right owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maybe4less Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 The blog post was great and I found it well researched and rationalized. My one critique is it fails to mentions the Zinterhofer dimension, which I consider an important variable. Anyone consider the Searchlight/Zinterhofer connection here? I find it curious that Zinterhofer joined the GNMCA board, just in 2015, and that he appears to have deep Malone connections. This includes he is Chairman of the Board at CHTR and is Malone's partner in Lat AM where he owns a portion of the Liberty Puerto Rico asset that is co-owned with LILAK. He is also a vendor to LILAK through his Hemishpere Media Group (HMTV) interest. I am wondering more if this meant to be a flip given the asset appears distressed and Malone foresaw the value this asset could have in a scaled operator like CHTR (think programming) but was small enough to fall off the radar. Further, the Vz asset increases in attractiveness to a scaled cable co as they position themselves to negotiate for their spot in a wireless/wireline converged world (e.g. quad play) increasing its value to the right owner. When this deal was announced, the Liberty team was surprisingly open about the plan being to eventually sell GNCMA to Charter, so I very much think it is meant to be a flip. At least was that was my interpretation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamecock-YT Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 I am wondering more if this meant to be a flip given the asset appears distressed and Malone foresaw the value this asset could have in a scaled operator like CHTR (think programming) but was small enough to fall off the radar. Further, the Vz asset increases in attractiveness to a scaled cable co as they position themselves to negotiate for their spot in a wireless/wireline converged world (e.g. quad play) increasing its value to the right owner. What asset 'appears distressed'? In re: the blog post, the backhaul agreement AFAIK wasn't made just with Verizon, also included AT&T, etc. and on the Verizon point, sure there are synergies, but is Verizon really going to give two flips about AWN's network when making a play on GCI/Charter? Reads a little bit too much LVNTA/Malone fanboy than cutting GNCMA analysis for my taste. But overall, I agree with his general points, which is why I'm still super long GNCMA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpioncapital Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 IB sent a note that LVNTA would undergo a 1:1 reverse stock split Feb 8th. I have never seen a 1:1 reverse stock split so not sure if it's just the wrong wording or if the mechanics of the GCI merger will appear as a 1:1 reverse stock split cosmetically? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayWardCloud Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Not too sure about the wording either but here is how it happened in the past with Dr. Malone's spin-offs. Your LVNTA stock gets renamed LVNTA.OLD after the market is closed on the 8th. You are then given an equal amount of shares (1:1) of the newly created GCI Liberty stock (not sure what the ticker name will be) and your LVNTA.OLD is liquidated tax free. For example, LILAK.OLD still appears in my IB historical but it reads "0" for P/L. I'm excited! I was expecting the spin-off to happen at the very end of the quarter but it looks like we only have a month to go which means the buybacks can start sooner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtvinvest Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Yes, they've announced the dates for GCI and LVNT meetings where they will vote on the proposal: "Dear Shareholders of General Communication, Inc.: NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN of the special meeting of shareholders of General Communication, Inc. (GCI) to be held at 8:00 a.m., local time, on February 2, 2018" (http://ir.gci.com/static-files/bd3be7c5-061b-41df-9984-10bc2c151718) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpioncapital Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Anyone know the tax consequences of this split-off for non-us holders? Is it a combination of a spin-off and a merger, or a merger first then a spin-off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vince Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Can anybody offer an explanation why the discount at ventures has widened substantially in the last couple months? Very strange how quiet it's been around the internet boards and blogs in regards to Ventures discount to its Chtr exposure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABM Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 I think the updated reattribution is a factor as it increases the leverage of post spin due to the higher cash payment to QVCA for taking on the debt. This is due to the tax reform that decreased the NPV of the interest tax deductions. I have them at just under $250M assuming they settle the CHTR exchangeables with QVCA for Cash within 6 months. See 10k for discussion on the tender provision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayWardCloud Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 I'm trying to calculate the new NAV for GLIB and would appreciate any help :) I'm basing the value of GCI on the buyout price but we could also do multiples of EBITDA and add the debt down below at the Liberty level instead. GCI Enterprise Value = $2.7B Evite = (don’t know, not much, any ideas of value?) Liberty Broadband Stake = 42.7m shares * $85.27 / share = $3.64B Charter Stake = 5.4m shares * $325.47 / share = $1.74B Lending Tree Stake = 3.2m shares * $257.75 / share = $1.16B Cash = $0.466B Debt = (??) Margin Loan? Other liabilities with Liberty Interactive, With Qurate? Total NAV = $? Shares Outstanding = 105M GLIBA + 4.5 GLIBB + 7.3M GLIBP = 116.8M NAV per share = $? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter MacGavin Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 I'm trying to calculate the new NAV for GLIB and would appreciate any help :) I'm basing the value of GCI on the buyout price but we could also do multiples of EBITDA and add the debt down below at the Liberty level instead. GCI Enterprise Value = $2.7B Evite = (don’t know, not much, any ideas of value?) Liberty Broadband Stake = 42.7m shares * $85.27 / share = $3.64B Charter Stake = 5.4m shares * $325.47 / share = $1.74B Lending Tree Stake = 3.2m shares * $257.75 / share = $1.16B Cash = $0.466B Debt = (??) Margin Loan? Other liabilities with Liberty Interactive, With Qurate? Total NAV = $? Shares Outstanding = 105M GLIBA + 4.5 GLIBB + 7.3M GLIBP = 116.8M NAV per share = $? In terms of at GCI Liberty, I just subtract a $1B margin loan LBDRK. And at GCI Liberty operating I have $1.481B term loan and GCI preferred of $172M accruing at 7%. So using your numbers NAV of $57.30, not counting the DTL's for Charter and LBRDK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reader Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 $tree is $110 higher at $361 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayWardCloud Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 Thank you both so much! Here's the updated math: GCI Enterprise Value = $2.7B Evite = don’t know, not much Liberty Broadband Stake = 42.7m shares * $83.82 / share = $3.58B Charter Stake = 5.4m shares * $315.07 / share = $1.70B Lending Tree Stake = 3.2m shares * $335.00 / share = $1.14B Cash = $0.466B Margin Loan to LBRDK = ($1B) GCI term loan = ($1.481B) GCI preferred = ($0.172B) (accruing at 7%) Total NAV = $6.933B Shares Outstanding = 105M GLIBA + 4.5 GLIBB + 7.3M GLIBP = 116.8M NAV per share = $59.36 Price = $51.05 Upside (%) = 16 Discount (%) = 14 If we add the intrinsic discount from Broadband to the calculation (see detail below), the LBRDA stake is now worth $3.91B which bring Total NAV to $7.263B, NAV per share to $62.18 or a 17.9% discount / 21.8% Upside. (This is all Without counting the accruing 7%/year upon the preferred because I didn't know how to and it seems small enough) Liberty Broadband Charter Stake = 54.1M shares X 312.39 = $16.9B Skyhook AKA TruePosition = $40M (estimate from investor day 2016) Cash = $81M Margin Loan = ($500M) NAV = $16.521B Shares Outstanding = A:26,304,641 + B:2,455,179 + C:152,576,524 = 181.34M NAV per share = $91.1 Price = 83.35 Upside (%) = 9.3 Discount (%) = 8.5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winjitsu Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 (This is all Without counting the accruing 7%/year upon the preferred because I didn't know how to and it seems small enough) Based on this EV build up, you can model the value as the negative DCF value of the dividend stream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munger_Disciple Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 Shares Outstanding = 105M GLIBA + 4.5 GLIBB + 7.3M GLIBP = 116.8M WayWardCloud, Since you subtract out the preferred stock value in the NAV calculation, you should not include the number of preferred shares in the per share NAV calculation. You should instead use the 109.5M number in the denominator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spekulatius Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 It’s darn messy for a spin-off, probably by design. I owned LMCA just a short time ago and that thing started to split into pieces I don’t know how many times and shares had children and grandchildren. I sold most shares (for decent enough profits) sine the individual stakes get small and at least for some, the discount to NAV at that time. I sill hold andere shares in the Atlanta Braves that did OK. it’s got to be almost a full i me job to keep track of these things. Too much work for me, but one of these days one of these shares becomes very cheap, I am sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpioncapital Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Usually discounts of holding companies that hold public shares seldom close completely. It can expand or contract but I've seldom seen it go to zero. They merged with an operating company presumably to contract the discount. But any thesis of investment should assume a relatively constant discount as business as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayWardCloud Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 I agree in general but in the case of GCI Liberty (we should rename the thread by the way) Maffei has made no mystery that the end game is to collapse the company with Broadband and/or Charter which will remove the discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtvinvest Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 I agree in general but in the case of GCI Liberty (we should rename the thread by the way) Maffei has made no mystery that the end game is to collapse the company with Broadband and/or Charter which will remove the discount. Do you have any view on the tax consequences of e.g. LBRD buying GLIB (which has a deferred tax liability on their gain on LBRD shares)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayWardCloud Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 I agree in general but in the case of GCI Liberty (we should rename the thread by the way) Maffei has made no mystery that the end game is to collapse the company with Broadband and/or Charter which will remove the discount. Do you have any view on the tax consequences of e.g. LBRD buying GLIB (which has a deferred tax liability on their gain on LBRD shares)? Unfortunately, I'm far from a tax expert. I tend to trust Liberty's management on those maters based on their stellar track record at creatively avoiding taxes. A couple ideas you might want to look into about that question: GLIBA's system of debentures - GCI Aquisition Presentation, slides 24 and 25 : http://ir.gci.com/static-files/b1d6879a-de80-4c40-9290-1d3bb913793d - This article : https://moiglobal.com/nathaniels-beautiful-mind/ Reverse Morris Trusts: - https://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/reverse-morris-trust.asp (see also RMT use in the case of Liberty Media / Liberty Sirius XM / SiriusXM) I'm not smart enough to tell you more specifically what will happen but I know Liberty's accountants are the absolute best and that John Malone would rather have a triple colonoscopy than pay more than the absolute minimum amount of capital gains as possible. They have a whole array of creative tools to use from the Playbook and a shareholder base ready to go through complex stuff. I also hear the new tax code was written and passed hastily for political reason, thus it's probably full of brand new loop holes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgyetzer Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 Was there some announcement with GCI Liberty that it’s up 18% after hours? Or is that just some glitch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter MacGavin Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 Was there some announcement with GCI Liberty that it’s up 18% after hours? Or is that just some glitch? I don't see a quote for that. I have RT quotes in IB and still shows the sad $44ish. By any chance are you using Mt. Gox for your GLIBA quotes? :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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