jmp8822 Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 There is no exact date for the spinoff yet, correct? Not that I know of - a prior presentation said 1st half 2016. The initial S-1s have been filed for both companies, but there haven't been any amendments yet, which eventually will give the exact dates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
namo Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 The spin-off of CommerceHub will take place on July 13th: http://ir.libertyinteractive.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=977458 No mention of the Expedia spin-off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpioncapital Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 CommerceHub has started trading today and it seems quite reasonably priced - if you exclude the egregious amount of stock option compensation which is so liked by tech companies it seems to be trading in the mid teens to last year's earnings and the growth rate is in the 20%+ per year range. This would seem to give it a PEG < 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foreign Tuffett Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 CommerceHub has started trading today and it seems quite reasonably priced - if you exclude the egregious amount of stock option compensation which is so liked by tech companies it seems to be trading in the mid teens to last year's earnings and the growth rate is in the 20%+ per year range. This would seem to give it a PEG < 1. Where are you getting a quote for this? I don't think it starts trading regular way until this coming Monday (7/25)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpioncapital Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 CHIKV and CHIAV. However, I am not sure how this works, I presume these when issued symbols will convert to CHUBA and CHUBK on Monday immediately before the open? https://www.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ%3ACHIKV&ei=566SV9mgMcqbiAL746p4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muscleman Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 CommerceHub has started trading today and it seems quite reasonably priced - if you exclude the egregious amount of stock option compensation which is so liked by tech companies it seems to be trading in the mid teens to last year's earnings and the growth rate is in the 20%+ per year range. This would seem to give it a PEG < 1. May I ask you where you get the financials for CommerceHub please? I can't seem to find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yitech Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 Commerce Hub S1 https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1665658/000104746916011805/a2227352zs-1.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muscleman Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 I am not comfortable to exclude the stock compensation. Note that they capitalize their software costs over 2-3 years. Amazon does that for 2 years. Google said it is expensed until product release and the capitalization cost is immaterial. CommerceHub: " Software Costs: The Company capitalizes the cost of acquired software and payroll, payroll-related costs and third-party consulting fees incurred in developing and enhancing CommerceHub Solutions and related product offerings as internal use software. Software costs are amortized on a straight-line basis over two to three years. Amortization of capitalized software costs is included in cost of revenue within the consolidated statements of operations. Payroll and benefits associated with internally developed software capitalized during the years ended December 31, 2015 and 2014 approximated $6.5 million and $3.0 million, respectively." Google: "We expense software development costs, including costs to develop software products or the software component of products to be marketed to external users, before technological feasibility is reached. Technological feasibility is typically reached shortly before the release of such products and as a result, development costs that meet the criteria for capitalization were not material for the periods presented. Software development costs also include costs to develop software to be used solely to meet internal needs and cloud based applications used to deliver our services. We capitalize development costs related to these software applications once the preliminary project stage is complete and it is probable that the project will be completed and the software will be used to perform the function intended. Costs capitalized for developing such software applications were not material for the periods presented." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpioncapital Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 I agree. Liberty in the presentation slide did say they will compensate CommerceHub with a one time payment for the dilution due to the options outstanding. The dilution would be 12%, about 5 million shares. Presumably this is at the strike price so I'm not sure how much of a compensation this is since the strikes are generally about 1/2 the current trading price. (http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/AMDA-GY7JI/2497376033x0x900960/083B6E37-EE1A-45BF-BA37-FC1049C41B6E/CommerceHub-Spinoff-Presentation-July-2016.pdf) Also a bit weird that the A series is trading below the K series. If the world is just, this should flip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurgis Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 Also a bit weird that the A series is trading below the K series. If the world is just, this should flip. A number of Liberty As are trading below Ks right now. It's mostly irrational, though some people try to explain it as a liquidity premium. I flip flop A's to K's couple times a year. Stopped posting it on CoBF since nobody seems to care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpioncapital Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 Just speculating but I wonder how many investors saw 0.2 shares of the Ks and 0.1 shares of the As and thought wow I got more Ks! Maybe I should sell the As and convert into Ks or something... PS. Probably not good practice to compare, but SPS Commerce, what some are calling a comparable, earned 1/2 the adjusted EBITDA of CommerceHub and trades for 2x the market cap. Of course one may be overvalued or they both may be overvalued. Or maybe one is undervalued relative to the other. (An interview here with the CEO - https://www.thestreet.com/story/13651205/1/it-s-business-as-usual-after-spinoff-says-commercehub-ceo.html. Hearing him talk, this company really looks like an American version of Alibaba, or at least able to move in that direction. Obviously more retail than wholesale focused but can't see why it can't be used for both) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spekulatius Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 Also a bit weird that the A series is trading below the K series. If the world is just, this should flip. A number of Liberty As are trading below Ks right now. It's mostly irrational, though some people try to explain it as a liquidity premium. I flip flop A's to K's couple times a year. Stopped posting it on CoBF since nobody seems to care. I care and have been swapping around positions as well. Thank you for the reminders! It's free money the way I see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpioncapital Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 Seems to have righted itself, all is well with the world :) Still appears reasonable but I am wondering how the company is still quite small given 20 years in business? I also notice a comparable, SPS Commerce has 2x the revenues but much thinner margins: 13% adjusted ebidta to sales (guidance for 2016) vs CommerceHub at a whopping 37% (last year and including income tax). I did notice that QVC, a Liberty affiliate sends 10% of revenues to CommerceHub. That relationship seems pretty solid but not sure if that is the cause of the large difference. Gross margins seem about the same, but sales & marketing differs quite a bit between the two. Any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefatbaboon Posted August 2, 2016 Share Posted August 2, 2016 Anyone heard anything regarding the Expedia spin? The aim was for q2. Is it possible bodybuilding isn't enough cover for the irs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kh812000 Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 LVNTA earnings out. Fair Value of Public Holdings (amounts in millions) 3/31/2016 6/30/2016 HSN(1) $ 1,047 $ 979 Total Attributed QVC Group $ 1,047 $ 979 Charter(2) $ — $ 1,225 Expedia(3) 2,545 2,509 FTD(4) 268 255 Liberty Broadband(5) — 2,561 Tree.com(6) 271 245 Other Public Holdings(7) 1,662 479 Total Attributed Liberty Ventures Group $ 4,746 $ 7,274 http://ir.libertyinteractive.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=983229 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
namo Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 Anyone heard anything regarding the Expedia spin? The aim was for q2. Is it possible bodybuilding isn't enough cover for the irs? In the Q2 results announcement: On June 10, 2016, Liberty Interactive filed an amendment to its registration statement disclosing that the previously announced spin-off of Liberty Expedia (comprised of, among other things, Liberty Interactive’s interest in Expedia, Inc., Liberty Interactive’s subsidiary Bodybuilding.com, LLC and $400 million of debt) would be changed to a mandatory redemptive split-off. Does someone know what the latter is? A cursory search did not yield much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kh812000 Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 So CHTR blows out earnings at 9.99B vs 9.47B expectations and sees synergies w/TWC&Brighthouse more than expected. Not going to pay taxes until 2018 or 2019. With the upcoming split off of LEXPE, the discount to CHTR via LBRDK has only widened since Liberty reported... Any one have ideas on what the contention is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpioncapital Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 I don't know but my experience is that when these sort of holding companies hold an underlying they almost always trade at a discount. They can spin to their hearts' content but it's unlikely to be zero. Probably the thinking is that holding a 1:1 proxy is better than a mixed bag of holdings but I'd pencil in anywhere from 5% to 20%. I keep saying it but these are one time gains. If your portfolio is 100% in this, you might unlock 10% in one year and that's it. Most people are not kamikaze enough to hold 100% so it might be a 10-20% holding in which case you stand to make 1-2% if the discount is eliminated. It's really peanuts in the grand scheme of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kh812000 Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 Yes agree that hold cos trade at a disc. I'm with you---usually 5-20% from my experience too. But LVNTA is around 32% disc at this point from my view. Add in that CHTR is going to keep going gangbusters over next few yrs based on disclosures of FCF growth and Rutledge as a rock star. So you have a way to own CHTR at 30% disc and you know malone is going to simplify via merger of Libery Broadband/CHTR at some point (seemingly sooner than later due to a sense of urgency over there possibly from IRS RMT scrutiny) which means the 30% disc closes to 0. The only question is when right... So I dont see it as a 1-2% incremental but more like 20% CAGR CHTR capital gains with a 30% kicker via LVNTA arb. I was thinking underperf was due to the push out of LEXE and possibly disappointment in change from spin to split... I could be wrong but split to me seems like it only makes LVNTA holdco more valuable as LEXE gets split off right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munger_Disciple Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 I think one of the reasons for the large discount is the overly generous stock option compensation of management at each of the holding companies (Liberty Ventures and Liberty Broadband). So you have to consider these frictional costs before you get to Charter stock thru' Liberty Ventures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpioncapital Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 Corporate actions are weird, almost every time I hurried I was chasing a phantom in the sense that the mispricing didn't instantly disappear. Now I'm trying to train myself to take more wait and see approach. If LMCA & LXSMA is any indication, LEXEA and LVNTA being cousins, LEXEA might close discount more than LVNTA which still has quite a few other holdings in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefatbaboon Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 amended S4 filed, board meeting Nov 1 to approve split-off 100 lvnta on redemption day to become 40 Lexea and 60 Lvnta redemption day to be "as soon as practicable" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kh812000 Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 Report circulating that LEXE split would enable CTRP to take control of EXPE via LEXE in one swoop. Suggests takeout value at EXPE equiv of $190/sh. Bullish for LVNTA and EXPE for that matter.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yitech Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 Report circulating that LEXE split would enable CTRP to take control of EXPE via LEXE in one swoop. Suggests takeout value at EXPE equiv of $190/sh. Bullish for LVNTA and EXPE for that matter.... Doesn't Priceline own 10%+ of Ctrip? How is this going to fly with the justice department? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chesko182 Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 Has anyone looked at the exchangeable debentures attributed to Liberty Ventures? I'd like to understand the actual advantage they hold from a cash flow and PV of asset/liability perspective and additionally they're trading between 50-60 cents on the dollar yielding around 10% which makes them seem pretty cheap. Does anyone know why this is the case? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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