fareastwarriors Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 Alphabet’s Waymo Said to Expand Self-Driving Chrysler Van Fleet https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-01-08/alphabet-s-waymo-said-to-expand-self-driving-chrysler-van-fleet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berkshiremystery Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 Fiat Chrysler Automobiles NV (FCAU) to Invest $1B in U.S., Create 2,000 Jobs https://investorplace.com/2017/01/fiat-chrysler-automobiles-nv-fcau/#.WHUOcsukqf2 Fiat Chrysler Automobiles NV says that once the retool of its factories is complete, it will add 2,000 jobs in the United States. President-elect Donald Trump praised the decision with a post on Twitter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muscleman Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Any news today? A sudden 10% drop. In the past two years, every time Sergio unveils his 2018 plan, the stock had a sharp decline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyten1 Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 http://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/12/epa-to-accuse-fiat-chrysler-of-using-software-that-allowed-excess-diesel-emissions-in-about-100k-vehicles.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phaceliacapital Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Putting things in perspective, think erasing of 2 bn of market cap is slightly overdone.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fareastwarriors Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 What are people's game plan? Hold and see how this unfolds, buy more, or sell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muscleman Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 What are people's game plan? Hold and see how this unfolds, buy more, or sell? I just sold. It was a good run up. Not sure if the shares are now haulted. I don't see any bid/ask on my TWS terminal anymore. I think having this scandal at the top of a three year high is very dangerous as lots of people would rush to exit while they still have some profits to book. Does anybody have thoughts on the potential fine impact? VW's CEO was forced out after its scandal. While the impact on FCAU might be just a $200 million fine, assuming $2000 per vehicle loss, if Sergio is forced out, then the hockey ride to 2018 may not be feasible anymore. That will be the worst case scenario. What I don't understand is that FCAU's diesel vehicles have the worst MPG amoung its competitors, which might imply that it is not cheating on MPG. And if it does have a diesel problem, then I assume it would have been exposed far earlier than this. I don't know what's going on here. Waiting to see the EPA announcement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalal.Holdings Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Accused of diesel emissions cheating: http://jalopnik.com/the-epa-will-accuse-fiat-chrysler-of-installing-softwar-1791115155 This after Germany accused fiat of doing similar in Europe last year. FCAU a low quality auto company hyped by Marchionne's supposed finesse at deal making and manufacturing of "adjusted ebitda". Many catastrophic black swan risks in this company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyten1 Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 https://www.fcagroup.com/en-US/media_center/fca_press_release/FiatDocuments/2017/january/FCA_US_Response_to_EPA_Statement.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phaceliacapital Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Accused of diesel emissions cheating: http://jalopnik.com/the-epa-will-accuse-fiat-chrysler-of-installing-softwar-1791115155 This after Germany accused fiat of doing similar in Europe last year. FCAU a low quality auto company hyped by Marchionne's supposed finesse at deal making and manufacturing of "adjusted ebitda". Many catastrophic black swan risks in this company. Everyone's entitled to their opinion but if you read the official EPA response it clearly says: https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/epa-notifies-fiat-chrysler-clean-air-act-violations "FCA may be liable for civil penalties and injunctive relief for the violations alleged in the NOV. EPA is also investigating whether the auxiliary emission control devices constitute “defeat devices,” which are illegal." Let's try to separate facts from fiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalal.Holdings Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Only a matter of time till the Germans hit them too: https://www.google.com/amp/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1174O3?client=safari https://www.google.com/amp/www.forbes.com/sites/bertelschmitt/2016/09/01/dieselgate-reaches-fiat-chrysler-proof-of-defeat-devices-exists-german-government-says/?client=safari The evidence strongly points to defeat devices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fareastwarriors Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Maybe the Trump administration will shut this investigation down! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dutchman Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Trump may give them a medal for fooling the epa, which he loathes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sampr01 Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Go back to actual data about MPG and emission levels.. you will see the facts and Fiat has lowest MPG and highest emission compared to VW, GM and most of the European car companies. BREAKING: Anyone comparing Volkswagen emissions issues with Fiat Chrysler 'is smoking illegal material': Fiat Chrysler CEO Only a matter of time till the Germans hit them too: https://www.google.com/amp/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1174O3?client=safari https://www.google.com/amp/www.forbes.com/sites/bertelschmitt/2016/09/01/dieselgate-reaches-fiat-chrysler-proof-of-defeat-devices-exists-german-government-says/?client=safari The evidence strongly points to defeat devices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berkshiremystery Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Sergio Marchionne told CNBC on Thursday the company is "fundamentally different" from German automaker Volkswagen. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/were-fundamentally-different-volkswagen-fiat-191047757.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Hjorth Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Perhaps time to take a look at Daimler and BMW. They are both down quite some recently. Now back to topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berkshiremystery Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Here's the transcript from the CNBC interview with Fiat Chrysler CEO Sergio Marchionne. Cheers! ----- CNBC Exclusive: CNBC Transcript: Fiat Chrysler CEO Sergio Marchionne Speaks with CNBC's Phil LeBeau Today on CNBC's "Power Lunch" http://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/12/cnbc-exclusive-cnbc-transcript-fiat-chrysler-ceo-sergio-marchionne-speaks-with-cnbcs-phil-lebeau-today-on-cnbcs-power-lunch.html <snip>.... MARCHIONNE : WELL, I MEAN, WE WERE RELATIVELY CLEAR WITH THE PRESS RELEASE THAT WE ISSUED THIS MORNING. WE HAVE A NUMBER OF CONTROL STRATEGIES THAT RUN OUR ENGINES, AND THERE'S NEVER BEEN ANY INTENT IN PUTTING THE SOFTWARE IN THE VEHICLES TO DEFRAUD ANYBODY. WE THINK THAT THE SOFTWARE IS COMPLIENT WITH CURRENT LEGISLATION. WE MAY HAVE A DIFFERENCE OF OPINION AS TO WHETHER THE EPA AND CARB HAVE DIFFERENT EXPECTATIONS OF DISCLOSURE ON THOSE CALIBRATIONS, BUT THE FUNDAMENTAL DIFFERENCE IN OUR CASE AND RECENT CASES THAT THEY SETTLED HAVE TO DO WITH THE FACT THAT THESE CONTROL STRATEGIES WORK ALL THE TIME IN OUR VEHICLES. THEY DO NOT DISTINGUISH BETWEEN TEST CYCLES AND RUNNING A NORMAL RUNNING OPERATION, SO THE CASE IS FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT, AND IT IS IMPORTANT FOR US TO DISTINGUISH OURSELVES FROM THE CURRENT STATE OF THE ART IN THIS AREA. I THINK WE HAVE BEEN UNNECESSARILY MALIGNED WITH A DESIRE OR A WISH OR INTENT ON OUR PART TO TRY TO DEFRAUD ANYBODY. WE HAVEN'T. ....</snip> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berkshiremystery Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 So it seems the EPA did some fake news, :o FCAU rises further in early Friday.... ----- Fiat Rises as Investors Question VW Parallels in Cheating Charge January 13, 2017 - Bloomberg CEO calls the regulator’s allegations ‘unadulterated hogwash’ Marchionne said his company did nothing wrong and that his situation is entirely different from VW’s, calling insinuations to the contrary “absolute nonsense.” Marchionne told reporters Thursday. “We don’t belong to a class of criminals.” https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-01-13/marchionne-faces-cheating-charge-from-weaker-position-than-vw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fareastwarriors Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 EPA Action Highlights Fiat’s Financial Weakness http://www.wsj.com/articles/epa-action-highlights-fiats-financial-weakness-1484328928 EPA Emissions Probe Tilts Odds Against CEO’s Goals for Fiat Chrysler http://www.wsj.com/articles/epa-emissions-probe-tilts-oddsagainst-ceos-goals-for-fiat-chrysler-1484345037 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurgis Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 Did WSJ remove Google backdoor or is it just me? Going through "Private window" in Firefox that should not have tracking, but still don't get full article. Edit: Tried also Opera through their VPN and private window. Still no access. Hmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wabash02 Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 Anyone else have FCAU3 options from the spin-off of RACE that expire this week? Are you exercising, selling, or what? Thoughts? Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fareastwarriors Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 German Minister Dobrindt Seeks Recall of Fiat Cars, Bild Reports https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-01-15/german-minister-dobrindt-seeks-recall-of-fiat-cars-bild-reports Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekiefs Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Did WSJ remove Google backdoor or is it just me? Going through "Private window" in Firefox that should not have tracking, but still don't get full article. Edit: Tried also Opera through their VPN and private window. Still no access. Hmm. They are experimenting with disabling that "loophole", so I guess I'm now a proud WSJ subscriber. I attached the two articles you mentioned. I also attached this article: http://www.wsj.com/articles/epa-accuses-fiat-chrysler-of-diesel-emissions-violations-1484237791 I think the real issue here is answering the "why" question. Why did FCAU not disclose the 8 auxiliary emission-control devices on the 3.0-liter engines the EPA tested on, and if that non-disclosure of the AECDs was really illegal. That issue hasn't been directly addressed from FCAU in anything I've read so far, so it looks like this will play out in the courts. I'm no lawyer, so I can't comment or handicap the actual legality here. However, given the political climate, this charge seems to have been purposely rushed out the door (seriously, how could the EPA go to the public with such accusations without knowing if the software was designed to cheat emissions tests? why wasn't FCAU's PR team on top of this before accusations started flying?!) before the incoming administration takes over. The potential fines here are large, and Mr. Market wiped off almost a third of the max potential fine, so it appears that Mr. Market doesn't believe it will come to the max. I don't think I'll change my position much given my low cost basis and the friendly tone between FCAU and the new administration (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-01-08/fiat-chrysler-commits-1-billion-to-u-s-plants-for-jeeps-rams). Does this call into question the integrity of management? Marchionne's response was pretty standard with his characterized brashness--when you are going up against the U.S. Government I feel that it's better to play nice. Is he just denying to deny? I'm not sure. His leadership and candidness has been fanstastic but if this starts to spiral it might be time for a change. edit: attachmentsepa-accuses-fiat-chrysler-of-diesel.pdfepa-action-highlights-fiats-financi.pdfepa-emissions-probe-tilts-oddsagain.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ajc Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Does this call into question the integrity of management? Marchionne's response was pretty standard with his characterized brashness--when you are going up against the U.S. Government I feel that it's better to play nice. Is he just denying to deny? I'm not sure. His leadership and candidness has been fanstastic but if this starts to spiral it might be time for a change. My impression of Marchionne is that he has zero tolerance for any illegality, but if there is an area (controversial or not) where he sees a possible advantage then he will get every lawyer he can to look at it every which way and then go ahead if the letter of the law says it's okay. I think that's likely what happened here and why they didn't lay their cards on the table. If you've found a smart way to make the law work to your advantage, then why tell your competitors or regulators about it? This is a fight-to-the-death industry where every advantage counts, not some friendly under 8's soccer game for the local church charity. He's constantly spoken about the emissions laws being unclear and open to interpretation. My view is FCA saw an area not covered by the law and so after lengthy discussion and much legal opinion, they built a product that aggressively took advantage of that opening while remaining legal. If you remember his comments about electric cars, you can see the same thing. Basically, he said he'd manufacture not one more than was legally required because they cost FCA an arm and a leg and if anyone didn't like it they could go play in traffic. My sense is the EPA believes the product violated the spirit of the law, and so even if the evidence wasn't clear-cut they nonetheless got the case out the door before the Trump administration took office. Whether that'll work remains to be seen. Almost 2 years since the VW scandal broke, it's hard to believe they've got an obvious case after all the testing that's taken place in various cities across multiple countries. I think the shame-and-fine methods of the Obama administration were necessary after the GFC and restored a lot of trust and integrity into various industries. At the same time, there does come a point where business starts to get stigmatized and where it can just become a case of beating mostly reformed people with the biggest stick you can find. Unfortunately, I think this issue falls into that category. Judging from the rushed, unclear nature of the accusations it seems like an attempt to go out in a blaze of glory rather than in a reasonable and considered manner. No big deal, even if it's probably a slight shame for the EPA. As for fines, the Trump nominee is extremely pro-business. There might be some need to fine FCA a $100M or $200M just to show he's no pushover, but I also think it's just as likely the case gets dropped for lack of evidence or that FCA admit they didn't act in the spirit of the law in exchange for a warning. That's just my personal opinion and it's not backed up by any formal legal training. Disclosure: I own FCA stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arcube Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 +1. This is the best reflection on this latest issue I have read. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Does this call into question the integrity of management? Marchionne's response was pretty standard with his characterized brashness--when you are going up against the U.S. Government I feel that it's better to play nice. Is he just denying to deny? I'm not sure. His leadership and candidness has been fanstastic but if this starts to spiral it might be time for a change. My impression of Marchionne is that he has zero tolerance for any illegality, but if there is an area (controversial or not) where he sees a possible advantage then he will get every lawyer he can to look at it every which way and then go ahead if the letter of the law says it's okay. I think that's likely what happened here and why they didn't lay their cards on the table. If you've found a smart way to make the law work to your advantage, then why tell your competitors or regulators about it? This is a fight-to-the-death industry where every advantage counts, not some friendly under 8's soccer game for the local church charity. He's constantly spoken about the emissions laws being unclear and open to interpretation. My view is FCA saw an area not covered by the law and so after lengthy discussion and much legal opinion, they built a product that aggressively took advantage of that opening while remaining legal. If you remember his comments about electric cars, you can see the same thing. Basically, he said he'd manufacture not one more than was legally required because they cost FCA an arm and a leg and if anyone didn't like it they could go play in traffic. My sense is the EPA believes the product violated the spirit of the law, and so even if the evidence wasn't clear-cut they nonetheless got the case out the door before the Trump administration took office. Whether that'll work remains to be seen. Almost 2 years since the VW scandal broke, it's hard to believe they've got an obvious case after all the testing that's taken place in various cities across multiple countries. I think the shame-and-fine methods of the Obama administration were necessary after the GFC and restored a lot of trust and integrity into various industries. At the same time, there does come a point where business starts to get stigmatized and where it can just become a case of beating mostly reformed people with the biggest stick you can find. Unfortunately, I think this issue falls into that category. Judging from the rushed, unclear nature of the accusations it seems like an attempt to go out in a blaze of glory rather than in a reasonable and considered manner. No big deal, even if it's probably a slight shame for the EPA. As for fines, the Trump nominee is extremely pro-business. There might be some need to fine FCA a $100M or $200M just to show he's no pushover, but I also think it's just as likely the case gets dropped for lack of evidence or that FCA admit they didn't act in the spirit of the law in exchange for a warning. That's just my personal opinion and it's not backed up by any formal legal training. Disclosure: I own FCA stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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