merkhet Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil_Buffett Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Correct. ok great. thanks merkhet. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frommi Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Anyone who does not vote or forgets to vote has little to no impact on the success or failure of the merger. As for the cash exit rights (and, really, the voting requirements too), you and I covered this already a few posts ago. (http://www.cornerofberkshireandfairfax.ca/forum/investment-ideas/fiat/msg178610/#msg178610) Sorry i think i am just too stupid to understand this. Cash exit rights are for shares that vote no or don`t vote, that is in the proxy. And there is a clear limit for this of 500€ million. I understand that Marchionne can simply change that condition. But where does the money come from and why is the limit in the documents? Can they raise the additional capital necessary to buy back the old shares by offering more new shares? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palantir Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Fiat has some great brands. In honor of today: http://www.caranddriverthef1.com/sites/default/files/imce/u14/maserati-messi.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merkhet Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Sorry i think i am just too stupid to understand this. Cash exit rights are for shares that vote no or don`t vote, that is in the proxy. And there is a clear limit for this of 500€ million. I understand that Marchionne can simply change that condition. But where does the money come from and why is the limit in the documents? Can they raise the additional capital necessary to buy back the old shares by offering more new shares? No, I think we are just talking past one another. I am talking about the vote. You are talking about the mechanics of payment for cash exits. Fiat has something like $17 billion euros in the bank and subsidiaries that aren't core. My guess is that they can handle the cash exit, and I'd be happy to retire shares at these prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fareastwarriors Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Alfa Romeo: Old Fashioned Driving Is New Again The new Alfa Romeo 4C is a midengine, carbon-chassis Italian exotic for less than $70,000 http://online.wsj.com/articles/alfa-romeo-old-fashioned-driving-is-new-again-1405101133 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hardcorevalue Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 A good overview of the Agnelli family and Fiat before Sergio arrived. (44 minute history channel documentary) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBreK7qpsA4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian L Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Some reports VW is interested in Fiat: http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/07/17/uk-volkswagen-fiat-spa-idUKKBN0FM0R820140717 http://www.manager-magazin.de/unternehmen/autoindustrie/volkswagen-grossaktionaer-piech-interessiert-an-fiat-uebernahme-a-981433.html One more game for our top poker player? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LC Posted July 17, 2014 Author Share Posted July 17, 2014 hehehe maybe VW always things Fiat is undervalued? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phaceliacapital Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 http://www.bloomberg.com/video/vw-fiat-shareholders-said-in-luxury-brand-talks-n3_yN29STKeMav2r85lrcg.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MYDemaray Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Reports saying "luxury brands"....so not whole company? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wachtwoord Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Reports saying "luxury brands"....so not whole company? Well potentially. The article says their focus is on Chrysler for the North American Market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phaceliacapital Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 http://www.businessweek.com/news/2014-07-17/fiat-jumps-on-report-of-potential-takeover-talks-with-vw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compounding Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 http://www.fiatspa.com/en-US/media_center/FiatDocuments/2014/Luglio/Statement_from_Fiat.pdf ...and denied. That didn't take long. Piech is probably not Marchionnes favourite person in the world right about now :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merkhet Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 http://www.fiatspa.com/en-US/media_center/FiatDocuments/2014/Luglio/Statement_from_Fiat.pdf ...and denied. That didn't take long. Piech is probably not Marchionnes favourite person in the world right about now :) Phew. VW would be getting a steal at anywhere near current prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wachtwoord Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 http://www.fiatspa.com/en-US/media_center/FiatDocuments/2014/Luglio/Statement_from_Fiat.pdf ...and denied. That didn't take long. Piech is probably not Marchionnes favourite person in the world right about now :) Phew. VW would be getting a steal at anywhere near current prices. Take overs are usually well over market cap. I this case 80-90% good will would be acceptable ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merkhet Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 http://www.fiatspa.com/en-US/media_center/FiatDocuments/2014/Luglio/Statement_from_Fiat.pdf ...and denied. That didn't take long. Piech is probably not Marchionnes favourite person in the world right about now :) Phew. VW would be getting a steal at anywhere near current prices. Take overs are usually well over market cap. I this case 80-90% good will would be acceptable ;) I maintain that even double the market cap would be a steal. Think about it this way -- Chrysler made $1.8 billion in net income in 2013. So then Chrysler, on its own is worth around $22 per share. That's already more than 100% above the market cap -- and this is off, what I believe to be, depressed net margins of 2.5%. On top of that, they would get Fiat (Ferrari, Maserati, Alfa Romeo, etc.) for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wachtwoord Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 http://www.fiatspa.com/en-US/media_center/FiatDocuments/2014/Luglio/Statement_from_Fiat.pdf ...and denied. That didn't take long. Piech is probably not Marchionnes favourite person in the world right about now :) Phew. VW would be getting a steal at anywhere near current prices. Take overs are usually well over market cap. I this case 80-90% good will would be acceptable ;) I maintain that even double the market cap would be a steal. Think about it this way -- Chrysler made $1.8 billion in net income in 2013. So then Chrysler, on its own is worth around $22 per share. That's already more than 100% above the market cap -- and this is off, what I believe to be, depressed net margins of 2.5%. On top of that, they would get Fiat (Ferrari, Maserati, Alfa Romeo, etc.) for free. Yes, but you have to discount a lot because of the time value of money, the relatively high amount of risk and the high amount of leverage. I would take a double and be very pleased. FYI: Morningstar has a $19 FV estimate (not that it's gospel or anything, but in general I value their analyses). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fareastwarriors Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 VW wants to be the number 1 automaker in the world. They are not doing so hot in the U.S. so they want to buy its way in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merkhet Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 http://www.fiatspa.com/en-US/media_center/FiatDocuments/2014/Luglio/Statement_from_Fiat.pdf ...and denied. That didn't take long. Piech is probably not Marchionnes favourite person in the world right about now :) Phew. VW would be getting a steal at anywhere near current prices. Take overs are usually well over market cap. I this case 80-90% good will would be acceptable ;) I maintain that even double the market cap would be a steal. Think about it this way -- Chrysler made $1.8 billion in net income in 2013. So then Chrysler, on its own is worth around $22 per share. That's already more than 100% above the market cap -- and this is off, what I believe to be, depressed net margins of 2.5%. On top of that, they would get Fiat (Ferrari, Maserati, Alfa Romeo, etc.) for free. Yes, but you have to discount a lot because of the time value of money, the relatively high amount of risk and the high amount of leverage. I would take a double and be very pleased. FYI: Morningstar has a $19 FV estimate (not that it's gospel or anything, but in general I value their analyses). I would be pretty pissed with a double, but it seems not to matter as Marchionne & Elkan won't sell. Disagree on the risk but I suppose that's what makes a market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wachtwoord Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 http://www.fiatspa.com/en-US/media_center/FiatDocuments/2014/Luglio/Statement_from_Fiat.pdf ...and denied. That didn't take long. Piech is probably not Marchionnes favourite person in the world right about now :) Phew. VW would be getting a steal at anywhere near current prices. Take overs are usually well over market cap. I this case 80-90% good will would be acceptable ;) I maintain that even double the market cap would be a steal. Think about it this way -- Chrysler made $1.8 billion in net income in 2013. So then Chrysler, on its own is worth around $22 per share. That's already more than 100% above the market cap -- and this is off, what I believe to be, depressed net margins of 2.5%. On top of that, they would get Fiat (Ferrari, Maserati, Alfa Romeo, etc.) for free. Yes, but you have to discount a lot because of the time value of money, the relatively high amount of risk and the high amount of leverage. I would take a double and be very pleased. FYI: Morningstar has a $19 FV estimate (not that it's gospel or anything, but in general I value their analyses). I would be pretty pissed with a double, but it seems not to matter as Marchionne & Elkan won't sell. Disagree on the risk but I suppose that's what makes a market. I can't find info but do Marchionne & Elkan own more than half the equity? If not, it's not really their call. Anyway, as the Blackberry's CEO John Chen said the other day (paraphrased): "offer me $100 a share and I'll call you back". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merkhet Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 http://www.fiatspa.com/en-US/media_center/FiatDocuments/2014/Luglio/Statement_from_Fiat.pdf ...and denied. That didn't take long. Piech is probably not Marchionnes favourite person in the world right about now :) Phew. VW would be getting a steal at anywhere near current prices. Take overs are usually well over market cap. I this case 80-90% good will would be acceptable ;) I maintain that even double the market cap would be a steal. Think about it this way -- Chrysler made $1.8 billion in net income in 2013. So then Chrysler, on its own is worth around $22 per share. That's already more than 100% above the market cap -- and this is off, what I believe to be, depressed net margins of 2.5%. On top of that, they would get Fiat (Ferrari, Maserati, Alfa Romeo, etc.) for free. Yes, but you have to discount a lot because of the time value of money, the relatively high amount of risk and the high amount of leverage. I would take a double and be very pleased. FYI: Morningstar has a $19 FV estimate (not that it's gospel or anything, but in general I value their analyses). I would be pretty pissed with a double, but it seems not to matter as Marchionne & Elkan won't sell. Disagree on the risk but I suppose that's what makes a market. I can't find info but do Marchionne & Elkan own more than half the equity? If not, it's not really their call. Anyway, as the Blackberry's CEO John Chen said the other day (paraphrased): "offer me $100 a share and I'll call you back". Elkan owns 30% -- I suspect that another 20% wouldn't sell @ $20. And then you have the loyalty shares issue that will crop up over the next year or so. And your comparison is faulty. $100 is 10x Blackberry's price. $20 is 2x Fiat's price. Totally different situation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wachtwoord Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 http://www.fiatspa.com/en-US/media_center/FiatDocuments/2014/Luglio/Statement_from_Fiat.pdf ...and denied. That didn't take long. Piech is probably not Marchionnes favourite person in the world right about now :) Phew. VW would be getting a steal at anywhere near current prices. Take overs are usually well over market cap. I this case 80-90% good will would be acceptable ;) I maintain that even double the market cap would be a steal. Think about it this way -- Chrysler made $1.8 billion in net income in 2013. So then Chrysler, on its own is worth around $22 per share. That's already more than 100% above the market cap -- and this is off, what I believe to be, depressed net margins of 2.5%. On top of that, they would get Fiat (Ferrari, Maserati, Alfa Romeo, etc.) for free. Yes, but you have to discount a lot because of the time value of money, the relatively high amount of risk and the high amount of leverage. I would take a double and be very pleased. FYI: Morningstar has a $19 FV estimate (not that it's gospel or anything, but in general I value their analyses). I would be pretty pissed with a double, but it seems not to matter as Marchionne & Elkan won't sell. Disagree on the risk but I suppose that's what makes a market. I can't find info but do Marchionne & Elkan own more than half the equity? If not, it's not really their call. Anyway, as the Blackberry's CEO John Chen said the other day (paraphrased): "offer me $100 a share and I'll call you back". Elkan owns 30% -- I suspect that another 20% wouldn't sell @ $20. And then you have the loyalty shares issue that will crop up over the next year or so. And your comparison is faulty. $100 is 10x Blackberry's price. $20 is 2x Fiat's price. Totally different situation... I was talking about $100 for Fiat as well (as a ridiculous high offer). You said they are not selling and I'm saying there's always a price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merkhet Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I was talking about $100 for Fiat as well (as a ridiculous high offer). You said they are not selling and I'm saying there's always a price. No, I said that VW would be getting a steal at $20 a share or thereabouts. Phew. VW would be getting a steal at anywhere near current prices. I would be pretty pissed with a double, but it seems not to matter as Marchionne & Elkan won't sell. I suppose you may have interpreted that last part as "won't sell at any price" when it meant "won't sell for a double." Either way, it doesn't seem to matter at the moment as it doesn't seem like VW has made any actual overtures to Fiat... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wachtwoord Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Yes, I interpreted "Marchionne & Elkan won't sell" as won't sell at any price. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now