SHLDQ - Sears Holdings Corp

[ERICOPOLY]

Do the "LED bulbs" search on ShopYourWay.com and scroll right to the bottom.  Then more on the page downloads.  Then scroll right to the bottom again.  Then more on the page downloads.  Then scroll right to the bottom.  Then more on the page downloads.

 

This is just downright awful presentation.  Come on, no website does that!  None! 

[ERICOPOLY]

On the positive side, perhaps if they build a non-patience-testing website one day the business will take off. 

 

Perhaps this passive aggressive layout design is part of the plan to drive the stock lower so Eddie can take out more of the float?

[ERICOPOLY]

The employees on the sales floor think the integration is so bad that they'd rather put down the iPad and ring it up the old way.  It's faster and easier.  Well, at least according to the associates that WSJ spoke to.  I'm going down to Sears this week to ask a few associates myself.

[stahleyp]

Eric, as usual, you are right.

 

 

I bought some shoes at sears a while ago with Shop Your Way Rewards and it was pretty easy. The price was super cheap, too. I ordered online, went to the kiosk and the guy gave me them. Pretty painless. But man, the search is pretty awful. Truthfully, I tried using SYWR social tools and I found it a bit confusing and not very intuitive.

 

Perhaps I am having too much blind faith in Lampert, Berkowitz, Chou, etc. I agree with you too, Eric, about Lampert making excusing with pension costs. I remember reading an article about how he would call in from his Yacht to the board meetings or something similar (really?!?!?). With such negative sentiment and motivated, determined people at the helm (and investing with), this one is so tempting though.  I do feel slightly comforted that the guys who have invested with this have either their full or partial reputation at stake...while the occasional news paper writer has no skin in the game.

 

[hyten1]

eric funny, this is actually something new that people like

 

take a look at pinterest, its not just pinterest

 

 

 

Do the "LED bulbs" search on ShopYourWay.com and scroll right to the bottom.  Then more on the page downloads.  Then scroll right to the bottom again.  Then more on the page downloads.  Then scroll right to the bottom.  Then more on the page downloads.

 

This is just downright awful presentation.  Come on, no website does that!  None!

[jeffmori7]

For those interested, a long article on abandoned big box stores :

 

http://poseidon01.ssrn.com/delivery.php?ID=382022091086005000096079100125111027029011095077058037071002071109066123104095065024048096036099043030006118120013111073066086040066043048077004064092074087102084092008007076009029064017102004120007087090&EXT=pdf

 

It was linked on a blog about urban solutions, where you will find many interesting articles :

 

http://switchboard.nrdc.org/blogs/kbenfield/malls_and_big_boxes_continue_t.html

[LC]

Do the "LED bulbs" search on ShopYourWay.com and scroll right to the bottom.  Then more on the page downloads.  Then scroll right to the bottom again.  Then more on the page downloads.  Then scroll right to the bottom.  Then more on the page downloads.

 

This is just downright awful presentation.  Come on, no website does that!  None!

 

Actually more and more websites are doing this. Folks on tablets and even laptops don't want to load "page 2". It's a waste of time to re-load all the page headers, etc. The point of "page 2" is to see more content. Simply scrolling down is much easier, and more websites are in fact doing this.

 

That does not excuse the fact that SYW has a 100+ dollar LED bulb as the first result. That is atrocious.

[ERICOPOLY]

Which retailer does it that way?

 

Amazon?

 

The very best of the best, does not do it this way.

 

This isn't rocket science:

 

Scenario:

You have a shopper that walks into your store.  He asks the store personnel what aisle the "LED Bulbs" are on.  They tell him it's in aisle "7".

 

He goes there and everything is completely disorganized -- they've got flashlights, lamps, all kinds of stuff in that aisle in no particular order.

 

He walks out of the store asking the guy on the street "Where is the retailer that has a system of organizing what it puts on the shelves?"

 

Ah, then he goes into Home Depot/Amazon/Walmart/Target and completes the transaction.

 

[ERICOPOLY]

Only, on the web the aisles are virtual.  Brick and mortar stores have organized aisles.  So should the aisle called "search result" be organized.

[mbharadwaj]

I don't own SHLD. I had a quick comment about the search functionality.

 

It is probably one of the quickest, easiest and cheapest things to fix if the power structure at Sears decides to act on it. All they would have to do is feed their catalog into an framework like "Solr/Lucene" and they would have kick ass results which would be a superlative improvement (all others examples given except Amazon) to what they have now. And if they want to spend more there are a ton of other options and some of those options may work better with the shopping cart software (homegrown or otherwise) they are using.

[hyten1]

eric i don't see anything wrong with the scroll down more results show up  (for example its easier to use on a tablet). even if this is not optimal (that is debatable) this is really not the main issue.

 

the main issue is the results, their search algo, amazon has one of the best, many retailers doesn't.

 

i am sure shld has an order/reason for what is display, technical there has to be, now like i said the algo prob suck.

 

for me personally i don't mind the scroll for more results, its the results that i mind especially when they are not accurate.

 

also people talke about shopyourway, what about sears.com? sears.com has more of the traditional click on next page setup.

 

 

hy

 

Which retailer does it that way?

 

Amazon?

 

The very best of the best, does not do it this way.

 

This isn't rocket science:

 

Scenario:

You have a shopper that walks into your store.  He asks the store personnel what aisle the "LED Bulbs" are on.  They tell him it's in aisle "7".

 

He goes there and everything is completely disorganized -- they've got flashlights, lamps, all kinds of stuff in that aisle in no particular order.

 

He walks out of the store asking the guy on the street "Where is the retailer that has a system of organizing what it puts on the shelves?"

 

Ah, then he goes into Home Depot/Amazon/Walmart/Target and completes the transaction.

[LC]

Many of the new, trendy online boutiques do it that way.

 

Granted, their selection is very specific as they are not a "department store".

 

I simply don't think it makes much of a difference as long as the store provides accurate results, which SYW does not seem to do, at least as far as LED bulbs are concerned.

 

Edit: Just did another search on SYW for more traditional items ("down comforter"; "cordless drill"; "HDMI cable") and the results seemed much more...acceptable.

[ERICOPOLY]

They are also the virtual equivalent of "shifty salesmen" -- only they are incompetent even at this, and let me explain why...

 

The first hit result is "Go Green LED Bulbs Premium Warm White 12 Watt PAR38 LED Light Bulb"

 

Price quoted is "$139.53 $124.18"

 

So then I click on that item.

 

Now the new price quoted (for the same item):

 

"$139.53  $118.60".

 

 

I'm not joking guys!  They really are this fucking inept!

 

They quote me the higher price before I click on it, then offer me a lower price when I've clicked on it.

 

Do they disincentive the first click by lying about the price -- only they exaggerate how expensive it is!!!!  They don't show me the third lowest price until I've already clicked on it.

 

This is the online equivalent of having the items in the window marked at a higher price than they are really listed at in the store.

[ERICOPOLY]

Simply scrolling down is much easier, and more websites are in fact doing this.

 

 

Really, scrolling is much easier?  :o :o :o

 

Did you guys see this at the top of the "LED Bulbs" search results?

 

Quoting (with emphasis added):

Showing 10,693 products in LED Bulbs

 

 

[ERICOPOLY]

Well, they've pioneered "switch and bait".  Innovators!

[hyten1]

i hope people know this, in relation to erics "shifty salesmen".

 

amazon is no angel, albeit they do it better

 

amazon's price for product changes all the time, for the sample product. i hope people know this.

 

the price change can be as much as 50%.

 

amazon, for the same product, one day the price could be up 10%, the next day down 5% than again it could be up 20%.

 

 

[ERICOPOLY]

The shifty salesman was supposed to be humorous.

 

They implemented "switch and bait" instead of "bait and switch".

 

That's why I joked that they are inept at being shifty!

[ERICOPOLY]

You might be wondering how they could reduce the number of 10,000+ "LED Bulbs" results...

 

I have an idea...

 

The 5th item I've actually clicked on is a flashlight.  The quoted price (after clicking on it) changed from $3.99 to "go to checkout to see sale price".  So I try to add it to my cart.  It then says "This item is not available now.  Please try again later".

 

So... they are just wasting my time.  Why????  Why oh why do they list unavailable products in the first place, and then why do they ask me to find out how much it will cost if I take it to the checkout????  When all along they KNOW it isn't even available???

[LC]

It's funny, from what little I've browsed on SYW it seems that Eddie (or whoever is running the show on SYW) is trying every marketing trick in the book.

 

Take the LED Bulb we're talking about:

 

As Eric stated, they try to entice sales by offering an even lower price AFTER you click on the item. Essentially it's another "sale" after the markdown from $134 to $125.

 

Additionally, my guess is they try to strategically "position" items on the website. You search LED Bulbs, see a $125 bulb next to a $25 bulb....and Sears hopes you will buy the $25 bulb.

 

It seems like Eddie is systematically implementing all the old school department store sales tricks on the SYW website, and, I would guess, seeing what works.

 

Perhaps the model is to use this time as a testing period of all these sales tricks to figure out how to replicate the old-school department store experience (walking the aisles, the elevator music, etc.) on a website. Then use selected parts of Sears real estate to implement a fulfilment strategy.

 

People enjoy shopping. People enjoy walking the aisles, browsing, seeing what "feels" good and what they "feel" they should buy. You don't get that on Amazon. There's no elevator music. Maybe that is what Eddie is trying to do.

[muscleman]

How many mistakes have Eddie made during his tenure at SHLD?

I think the biggest ones:

1. Spent too much cash to buy back shares at $100+ price. Now stock is under $40 and he has no more money to buyback the shares?

2. Acquiring Sears Canada at 30 per share, only to spin it off for 13 per share. I think this is a big mistake. Perhaps this implies that his perception about the real estate value of Sears Canada was way off. If that is true, then maybe his perception about the real estate value in the US is also way off. This is the biggest concern for me.

 

 

Regarding this thread, I think after reading so many threads on this board, most threads have a lot of "real" content. Members do their job and crank down the numbers. This thread is an exception, in which members spend the most amount of time talking about Eddie can't be wrong/Bruce can't be wrong/Chou can't be wrong, and not many members really bother to dive deeply to read the details of the SEC filings.

 

For example, how many discussions were held after the latest 10-Q came out, except me pointing out that most of the gain on asset sales came from Sears Canada and another member pointed out the pension liability reduction? How many people understand the basic corporate structures, like, is Seritage held directly under SHLD parent or under any retail subs? If there was some real estate subs that hold the properties and lease them back to the retail subs, and these real estate subs are directly held under the parent, then I would have worried way less about the poor adjusted EBITDA numbers and poor appliance sales.

 

I have no offense against anyone. I am writing this mostly to blame myself for blinding trusting the gurus and buying before I could figure out these questions. Even today, I have not yet figured out these questions, but I felt like Seritage and other real estate subs may likely be held under the retail sub, which is quite dangerous.

 

And Luke5:23, please don't even quote Old West fund's letter for SHLD. I called them before and talked to their analyst and manager. They had no idea what they were talking about. They didn't understand SHLD corporate structure at all, but it was them who said in the annual letter that SHLD separated the assets from the liablities and if the retail sub goes bad, the assets will be well protected.

 

BTW, my entry was around 47 and I put in 15% of my hard earned cash into this sucker. I haven't sold yet, as I am still doing some work to try to figure it out, and I am curious what will happen for Baker and ESL, who bet their career into SHLD. :'(

[ERICOPOLY]

It's funny, from what little I've browsed on SYW it seems that Eddie (or whoever is running the show on SYW) is trying every marketing trick in the book.

 

Take the LED Bulb we're talking about:

 

As Eric stated, they try to entice sales by offering an even lower price AFTER you click on the item. Essentially it's another "sale" after the markdown from $134 to $125.

 

Additionally, my guess is they try to strategically "position" items on the website. You search LED Bulbs, see a $125 bulb next to a $25 bulb....and Sears hopes you will buy the $25 bulb.

 

It seems like Eddie is systematically implementing all the old school department store sales tricks on the SYW website, and, I would guess, seeing what works.

 

Perhaps the model is to use this time as a testing period of all these sales tricks to figure out how to replicate the old-school department store experience (walking the aisles, the elevator music, etc.) on a website. Then use selected parts of Sears real estate to implement a fulfilment strategy.

 

People enjoy shopping. People enjoy walking the aisles, browsing, seeing what "feels" good and what they "feel" they should buy. You don't get that on Amazon. There's no elevator music. Maybe that is what Eddie is trying to do.

 

For what it's worth, I stopped travelling to countries where you can't get the price stated clearly upfront.  I don't like bartering. 

 

That's partly why I hate SYW.com.  It just waste's my time when I just want to buy some LED Bulbs.  I don't want a social experience from the website -- I can go checkout fine legs at the real brick and mortar stores when I want a social experience  8)  Only it's better at Nordstrom.

[alertmeipp]

That's the page I got when I do a LED bulbs search:

 

http://www.shopyourway.com/search/products?allowRedirection=true&q=LED+Bulbs

 

 

What's wrong with it?

[Luke 532]

And Luke5:23, please don't even quote Old West fund's letter for SHLD. I called them before and talked to their analyst and manager. They had no idea what they were talking about. They didn't understand SHLD corporate structure at all, but it was them who said in the annual letter that SHLD separated the assets from the liablities and if the retail sub goes bad, the assets will be well protected.

 

muscleman, I'd be interested to hear more details of that phone call.  Care to elaborate? 

 

I'm curious of your background if you don't mind sharing.

 

Thanks!

[muscleman]

And Luke5:23, please don't even quote Old West fund's letter for SHLD. I called them before and talked to their analyst and manager. They had no idea what they were talking about. They didn't understand SHLD corporate structure at all, but it was them who said in the annual letter that SHLD separated the assets from the liablities and if the retail sub goes bad, the assets will be well protected.

 

muscleman, I'd be interested to hear more details of that phone call.  Care to elaborate? 

 

I'm curious of your background if you don't mind sharing.

 

Thanks!

 

Just sent you a PM, as I don't want to publicly assault some random hedge fund.

Regarding me, I am a part time investor and full time software engineer. I am working for the same company that Eric retired from. :) I manage my parent's hard earned retirement money as well as my own maxed out 401k pre-tax.

[Guest wellmont]

That's the page I got when I do a LED bulbs search:

 

http://www.shopyourway.com/search/products?allowRedirection=true&q=LED+Bulbs

 

 

What's wrong with it?

 

congrats you guys are one of the very few people in the world who willingly chose to search for a product on shopyourway.com today, rather than amazon or google. there really should be a prize or something for those that actually try it.