SHLDQ - Sears Holdings Corp

[Aberhound]

If the Burnaby property is owned by Sears Canada and was undisclosed it will have a dramatic effect on the share price of Sears Canada not Sears. why aren't we buying Sears Canada instead? It appears to be a similar situation to when FFH was expected to buy the rest of Odyssey Re. Many board members made a ton thanks largely to Mungerville (now old Mungerville). Canada has silly RE prices with cap rate down to 2.5% so now is the time to cash in. This creates urgency which should force Lampert to buy the rest of Sears Canada quickly.

 

Some may be interested to know that the Burnaby property is where the downtown core was supposed to be when the city was laid out by the Royal Surveyors in 1858. It is near Central Park which was supposed to be similar to Central Park in New York. Vancouver has adopted a multiple city core plan to reduce traffic and Metrotown is the 2nd or 3rd of the core areas. The other is Surrey which is still struggling to develop a single core.

[Matson125]

If the Burnaby property is owned by Sears Canada and was undisclosed it will have a dramatic effect on the share price of Sears Canada not Sears. why aren't we buying Sears Canada instead? It appears to be a similar situation to when FFH was expected to buy the rest of Odyssey Re. Many board members made a ton thanks largely to Mungerville (now old Mungerville). Canada has silly RE prices with cap rate down to 2.5% so now is the time to cash in. This creates urgency which should force Lampert to buy the rest of Sears Canada quickly.

 

Some may be interested to know that the Burnaby property is where the downtown core was supposed to be when the city was laid out by the Royal Surveyors in 1858. It is near Central Park which was supposed to be similar to Central Park in New York. Vancouver has adopted a multiple city core plan to reduce traffic and Metrotown is the 2nd or 3rd of the core areas. The other is Surrey which is still struggling to develop a single core.

 

I'm from Canada and own Sears Canada directly, for our friends in the U.S. who owns Sears holdings this is relevant to them as well as Sears Holdings owns 50% of Sears Canada.  Also Sears Canada has been repurchasing shares, so that interest should increase over time.  A few years ago Bill Ackman bought a ton of Sears Canada solely for the real estate value and later sold his interest to Sears Holding for $30.00 a share.  http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-04-23/sears-to-buy-pershing-square-stake-in-sears-canada-unit-for-556-7-million.html

 

 

 

 

[muscleman]

If the Burnaby property is owned by Sears Canada and was undisclosed it will have a dramatic effect on the share price of Sears Canada not Sears. why aren't we buying Sears Canada instead? It appears to be a similar situation to when FFH was expected to buy the rest of Odyssey Re. Many board members made a ton thanks largely to Mungerville (now old Mungerville). Canada has silly RE prices with cap rate down to 2.5% so now is the time to cash in. This creates urgency which should force Lampert to buy the rest of Sears Canada quickly.

 

Some may be interested to know that the Burnaby property is where the downtown core was supposed to be when the city was laid out by the Royal Surveyors in 1858. It is near Central Park which was supposed to be similar to Central Park in New York. Vancouver has adopted a multiple city core plan to reduce traffic and Metrotown is the 2nd or 3rd of the core areas. The other is Surrey which is still struggling to develop a single core.

 

I'm from Canada and own Sears Canada directly, for our friends in the U.S. who owns Sears holdings this is relevant to them as well as Sears Holdings owns 50% of Sears Canada.  Also Sears Canada has been repurchasing shares, so that interest should increase over time.  A few years ago Bill Ackman bought a ton of Sears Canada solely for the real estate value and later sold his interest to Sears Holding for $30.00 a share.  http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-04-23/sears-to-buy-pershing-square-stake-in-sears-canada-unit-for-556-7-million.html

 

Did you receive the SCC shares because of the spin off, or did you purchase the shares from the open market?

If they have the undisclosed lands, then it is hard to say what the upside is, but if we assume the Burnaby property is the only undisclosed property, then what do you think the upside is?

[Matson125]

If the Burnaby property is owned by Sears Canada and was undisclosed it will have a dramatic effect on the share price of Sears Canada not Sears. why aren't we buying Sears Canada instead? It appears to be a similar situation to when FFH was expected to buy the rest of Odyssey Re. Many board members made a ton thanks largely to Mungerville (now old Mungerville). Canada has silly RE prices with cap rate down to 2.5% so now is the time to cash in. This creates urgency which should force Lampert to buy the rest of Sears Canada quickly.

 

Some may be interested to know that the Burnaby property is where the downtown core was supposed to be when the city was laid out by the Royal Surveyors in 1858. It is near Central Park which was supposed to be similar to Central Park in New York. Vancouver has adopted a multiple city core plan to reduce traffic and Metrotown is the 2nd or 3rd of the core areas. The other is Surrey which is still struggling to develop a single core.

 

I'm from Canada and own Sears Canada directly, for our friends in the U.S. who owns Sears holdings this is relevant to them as well as Sears Holdings owns 50% of Sears Canada.  Also Sears Canada has been repurchasing shares, so that interest should increase over time.  A few years ago Bill Ackman bought a ton of Sears Canada solely for the real estate value and later sold his interest to Sears Holding for $30.00 a share.  http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-04-23/sears-to-buy-pershing-square-stake-in-sears-canada-unit-for-556-7-million.html

 

Did you receive the SCC shares because of the spin off, or did you purchase the shares from the open market?

If they have the undisclosed lands, then it is hard to say what the upside is, but if we assume the Burnaby property is the only undisclosed property, then what do you think the upside is?

 

I purchased them directly on the open market.  I had sold all my sears shares gradually after the spin out of SHOS and prior to the spin out of SCC.  I didn't want to pay the tax on the spinout of SCC knowing I could simply buy my prorated shares in my native currency tax free.

 

In terms of the upside, it would all depend on the amount of development and/or asset sales they take part in.  One interesting thing to note is that the float is very tightly held in the same fashion as SHLD.  3 Parties- SHLD, ESL and Berkowitz own 85% of the float.  SCC recently announced a normal course issuer bid as well.

 

[jeffmori7]

What I don't like about Sears Canada is that they are still strugling turning things around..and Target was not there yet. In the next few quarters, we will see the impact of the arrival of Target. I understand that there is probably a floor because of the real estate value, like in SHLD, but I'm afraid they will continue to burn cash as well... for how long?

[muscleman]

If the Burnaby property is owned by Sears Canada and was undisclosed it will have a dramatic effect on the share price of Sears Canada not Sears. why aren't we buying Sears Canada instead? It appears to be a similar situation to when FFH was expected to buy the rest of Odyssey Re. Many board members made a ton thanks largely to Mungerville (now old Mungerville). Canada has silly RE prices with cap rate down to 2.5% so now is the time to cash in. This creates urgency which should force Lampert to buy the rest of Sears Canada quickly.

 

Some may be interested to know that the Burnaby property is where the downtown core was supposed to be when the city was laid out by the Royal Surveyors in 1858. It is near Central Park which was supposed to be similar to Central Park in New York. Vancouver has adopted a multiple city core plan to reduce traffic and Metrotown is the 2nd or 3rd of the core areas. The other is Surrey which is still struggling to develop a single core.

 

I'm from Canada and own Sears Canada directly, for our friends in the U.S. who owns Sears holdings this is relevant to them as well as Sears Holdings owns 50% of Sears Canada.  Also Sears Canada has been repurchasing shares, so that interest should increase over time.  A few years ago Bill Ackman bought a ton of Sears Canada solely for the real estate value and later sold his interest to Sears Holding for $30.00 a share.  http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-04-23/sears-to-buy-pershing-square-stake-in-sears-canada-unit-for-556-7-million.html

 

Did you receive the SCC shares because of the spin off, or did you purchase the shares from the open market?

If they have the undisclosed lands, then it is hard to say what the upside is, but if we assume the Burnaby property is the only undisclosed property, then what do you think the upside is?

 

I purchased them directly on the open market.  I had sold all my sears shares gradually after the spin out of SHOS and prior to the spin out of SCC.  I didn't want to pay the tax on the spinout of SCC knowing I could simply buy my prorated shares in my native currency tax free.

 

In terms of the upside, it would all depend on the amount of development and/or asset sales they take part in.  One interesting thing to note is that the float is very tightly held in the same fashion as SHLD.  3 Parties- SHLD, ESL and Berkowitz own 85% of the float.  SCC recently announced a normal course issuer bid as well.

 

Got you. Thank you!

[Rabbitisrich]

One cautionary about SCC is Lampert's 2006 bid at $16.86 CAD. At the time, Bill Ackman led the counter charge. The OSC's ruling showed how Lampert played hardball with Genuity, the provider of the fair value opinion, and with Pershing Square: http://www.osc.gov.on.ca/documents/en/Proceedings-RAD/rad_20060808_searscanada.pdf

[muscleman]

If SCC is so good, why did SHLD try to take it private by paying Ackman $30 per share, only to partially spin it off last year near $11 per share?

[finetrader]

If SCC is so good, why did SHLD try to take it private by paying Ackman $30 per share, only to partially spin it off last year near $11 per share?

 

Lambert goofed on this one!

I remember an article a few month after Sears bought Sears Canada. Sears Canada was making good profit before Lambert bought it. Then in this article Sears Canada's management was complaining that the head office (Sears) was asking for lower expense and that the inventories in store was very poor because of that. That's when Sears Canada's profitability has started to decline significantly.

 

Then last year, Lambert spun off Sears Canada at a lower price.

[jeffmori7]

Hey guys, stupid question probably, but I'm quite confused between RBS, ESL and Eddy Lampert personal holdings...can someone help me to sort it out? If my understanding is good, RBS is reducing its stake in Sears and Lampert is buying them personally or through ESL, which would be the same?

[muscleman]

Hey guys, stupid question probably, but I'm quite confused between RBS, ESL and Eddy Lampert personal holdings...can someone help me to sort it out? If my understanding is good, RBS is reducing its stake in Sears and Lampert is buying them personally or through ESL, which would be the same?

 

I am also confused about the relationship between RBS and ESL. I know ESL is a fund that Lambert manages. I also know that Lambert is buying shares from ESL, probably due to redemption requests. But when I search in dataroma.com for the SHLD ownership, I also saw RBS partners there with Lambert as the manager.

[muscleman]

If SCC is so good, why did SHLD try to take it private by paying Ackman $30 per share, only to partially spin it off last year near $11 per share?

 

Lambert goofed on this one!

I remember an article a few month after Sears bought Sears Canada. Sears Canada was making good profit before Lambert bought it. Then in this article Sears Canada's management was complaining that the head office (Sears) was asking for lower expense and that the inventories in store was very poor because of that. That's when Sears Canada's profitability has started to decline significantly.

 

Then last year, Lambert spun off Sears Canada at a lower price.

 

Ok. Does this imply that SCC is probably worth less than $30? :)

[plato1976]

Eric,

 

You are indeed very brave to increase the SHLD position in a big way based on these news

 

I really don't think it speaks too much - need to see more positive and clear confirmation that they will accelerate the real estate value unlock

 

I always have some concern about the prospects of commercial real estate in the long run ( I think that netscrape founder made some points) - yet if SHLD liquidates their assets quickly enough , I think the value here is enough to justify a buy - they just need to be quick and I want to have some kind of confirmation or signal that they will do that

 

seriously, they really need to unlock value before the end of most retailers... I may be too pessimistic

 

 

 

http://www.seritage.com/

SERITAGE Realty Trust, LLC is a nationwide developer of commercial real estate. Our portfolio contains over 200 properties, located in 33 states and totals over 18 Million SF.

 

This is the group that David Lukes is leading and I am certain this website had gone live in the past week or so, as I was doing some digging a few weeks back and didn't come across this. 

In addition to the Ubiquity Critical Environments page www.ubiquityce.com things are starting to get interesting.

 

Justification for buying more SHLD in my opinion.  I'm going to buy a lot more now.

[ERICOPOLY]

seriously, they really need to unlock value before the end of most retailers... I may be too pessimistic

 

Don't worry, they are so awful at retailing their stores will be the first one through the exits of the burning theater.

 

[muscleman]

seriously, they really need to unlock value before the end of most retailers... I may be too pessimistic

 

Don't worry, they are so awful at retailing their stores will be the first one through the exits of the burning theater.

 

There is a local Sears store that I visit from time to time. The traffic isn't that bad, and I did see people buying appliances there. I think their lease to own program will probably be successful. They are the only retailer that offers lease to own for big items. :)

[Guest wellmont]

If SCC is so good, why did SHLD try to take it private by paying Ackman $30 per share, only to partially spin it off last year near $11 per share?

 

he did not hurt his strategy in any way as he still has control of the company. he could still take it private. The partial spin could be part of the liquidation that nobody believes is happening fast enough. Who knows. He never tells you why.

[ourkid8]

Eric, Have you added to your position? I recently took a 2.5% position after the earnings call. 

 

Tks,

S

 

http://www.seritage.com/

SERITAGE Realty Trust, LLC is a nationwide developer of commercial real estate. Our portfolio contains over 200 properties, located in 33 states and totals over 18 Million SF.

 

This is the group that David Lukes is leading and I am certain this website had gone live in the past week or so, as I was doing some digging a few weeks back and didn't come across this. 

In addition to the Ubiquity Critical Environments page www.ubiquityce.com things are starting to get interesting.

 

Justification for buying more SHLD in my opinion.  I'm going to buy a lot more now.

 

Yeah, I've been buying too, but I started to do that after the quarter was released and the stock tanked.

 

I'm the dummy that paid $60 right before it tanked.  My position is only 4% though.  I'm going to ratchet it up quite a bit.

[ERICOPOLY]

Eric, Have you added to your position? I recently took a 2.5% position after the earnings call. 

 

Tks,

S

 

http://www.seritage.com/

SERITAGE Realty Trust, LLC is a nationwide developer of commercial real estate. Our portfolio contains over 200 properties, located in 33 states and totals over 18 Million SF.

 

This is the group that David Lukes is leading and I am certain this website had gone live in the past week or so, as I was doing some digging a few weeks back and didn't come across this. 

In addition to the Ubiquity Critical Environments page www.ubiquityce.com things are starting to get interesting.

 

Justification for buying more SHLD in my opinion.  I'm going to buy a lot more now.

 

Yeah, I've been buying too, but I started to do that after the quarter was released and the stock tanked.

 

I'm the dummy that paid $60 right before it tanked.  My position is only 4% though.  I'm going to ratchet it up quite a bit.

 

Yes, I added this week.

[muscleman]

Eric, Have you added to your position? I recently took a 2.5% position after the earnings call. 

 

Tks,

S

 

http://www.seritage.com/

SERITAGE Realty Trust, LLC is a nationwide developer of commercial real estate. Our portfolio contains over 200 properties, located in 33 states and totals over 18 Million SF.

 

This is the group that David Lukes is leading and I am certain this website had gone live in the past week or so, as I was doing some digging a few weeks back and didn't come across this. 

In addition to the Ubiquity Critical Environments page www.ubiquityce.com things are starting to get interesting.

 

Justification for buying more SHLD in my opinion.  I'm going to buy a lot more now.

 

Yeah, I've been buying too, but I started to do that after the quarter was released and the stock tanked.

 

I'm the dummy that paid $60 right before it tanked.  My position is only 4% though.  I'm going to ratchet it up quite a bit.

 

Yes, I added this week.

 

It seems like you normally make very concentrated bets after you feel comfortable. Would you say this is going to be a 10, 20 or 30% position? Or do you just add more and more as you see more potential positive development coming?

[ERICOPOLY]

Eric, Have you added to your position? I recently took a 2.5% position after the earnings call. 

 

Tks,

S

 

http://www.seritage.com/

SERITAGE Realty Trust, LLC is a nationwide developer of commercial real estate. Our portfolio contains over 200 properties, located in 33 states and totals over 18 Million SF.

 

This is the group that David Lukes is leading and I am certain this website had gone live in the past week or so, as I was doing some digging a few weeks back and didn't come across this. 

In addition to the Ubiquity Critical Environments page www.ubiquityce.com things are starting to get interesting.

 

Justification for buying more SHLD in my opinion.  I'm going to buy a lot more now.

 

Yeah, I've been buying too, but I started to do that after the quarter was released and the stock tanked.

 

I'm the dummy that paid $60 right before it tanked.  My position is only 4% though.  I'm going to ratchet it up quite a bit.

 

Yes, I added this week.

 

It seems like you normally make very concentrated bets after you feel comfortable. Would you say this is going to be a 10, 20 or 30% position? Or do you just add more and more as you see more potential positive development coming?

 

I don't have a plan like that.  No idea.  Might not even have it that long if everything crashes -- the tax loss selling is always quite attractive.

[jeffmori7]

http://www.4-traders.com/news/Sears-Holdings-Corporation-Sears-Canada-Submits-Development-Application-to-City-of-Burnaby--17011055/

[abitofvalue]

Hey guys, stupid question probably, but I'm quite confused between RBS, ESL and Eddy Lampert personal holdings...can someone help me to sort it out? If my understanding is good, RBS is reducing its stake in Sears and Lampert is buying them personally or through ESL, which would be the same?

 

I am also confused about the relationship between RBS and ESL. I know ESL is a fund that Lambert manages. I also know that Lambert is buying shares from ESL, probably due to redemption requests. But when I search in dataroma.com for the SHLD ownership, I also saw RBS partners there with Lambert as the manager.

 

IIRC - RBS is a sub-fund / managed / owned of ESL.  Basically Eddie manages both funds.  If you want to separate what Lampert owns from what his fund owns - just treat ESL/RBS etc (think there might be a couple of other sub funds too) as his fund holdings and his personal holdings are what he himself owns.

 

on another note - Lampert visited our school last year for a talk.  we got to ask him questions at the end and he was asked about RE value / liquidation and he basically noted that while RE liquidation seemed like a good floor valuation when he bought the assets, once he got in there he realized the sheer scale of the company and the effect a liquidation would have on lives and couldn't bring himself to do it without trying everything he could to salvage it first. said that the thought of putting over 300,000 individuals out of a job and thus affecting over a 1m people was pretty harsh and just not something he wanted to do at this point in his life.  thought it was interesting to hear him basically say that a liquidation wasn't on the table.

 

note that he did make it quite clear that he does think the company can be turned around and there is tremendous value / cash flows a well run retailer can generate.

 

[prunes]

In that vein, I think it's worth revisiting John Hempton's comments http://brontecapital.blogspot.com/2011/12/sears-holdings-liquidation-sale.html?m=1

[muscleman]

Hey guys, stupid question probably, but I'm quite confused between RBS, ESL and Eddy Lampert personal holdings...can someone help me to sort it out? If my understanding is good, RBS is reducing its stake in Sears and Lampert is buying them personally or through ESL, which would be the same?

 

I am also confused about the relationship between RBS and ESL. I know ESL is a fund that Lambert manages. I also know that Lambert is buying shares from ESL, probably due to redemption requests. But when I search in dataroma.com for the SHLD ownership, I also saw RBS partners there with Lambert as the manager.

 

IIRC - RBS is a sub-fund / managed / owned of ESL.  Basically Eddie manages both funds.  If you want to separate what Lampert owns from what his fund owns - just treat ESL/RBS etc (think there might be a couple of other sub funds too) as his fund holdings and his personal holdings are what he himself owns.

 

on another note - Lampert visited our school last year for a talk.  we got to ask him questions at the end and he was asked about RE value / liquidation and he basically noted that while RE liquidation seemed like a good floor valuation when he bought the assets, once he got in there he realized the sheer scale of the company and the effect a liquidation would have on lives and couldn't bring himself to do it without trying everything he could to salvage it first. said that the thought of putting over 300,000 individuals out of a job and thus affecting over a 1m people was pretty harsh and just not something he wanted to do at this point in his life.  thought it was interesting to hear him basically say that a liquidation wasn't on the table.

 

note that he did make it quite clear that he does think the company can be turned around and there is tremendous value / cash flows a well run retailer can generate.

 

Thank you for the insights. This is quite like the original Berkshire, when Buffet said the local unions tried very hard to cooperate, and he feel it too harsh to fire those workers, and tried to turn the textile mill around. He finally decided that he had to fire those workers.

[plato1976]

exactly what we are concerned here.

that's why we need to see a signal that this guy finally decides want to liquidate

in some way

 

Hey guys, stupid question probably, but I'm quite confused between RBS, ESL and Eddy Lampert personal holdings...can someone help me to sort it out? If my understanding is good, RBS is reducing its stake in Sears and Lampert is buying them personally or through ESL, which would be the same?

 

I am also confused about the relationship between RBS and ESL. I know ESL is a fund that Lambert manages. I also know that Lambert is buying shares from ESL, probably due to redemption requests. But when I search in dataroma.com for the SHLD ownership, I also saw RBS partners there with Lambert as the manager.

 

IIRC - RBS is a sub-fund / managed / owned of ESL.  Basically Eddie manages both funds.  If you want to separate what Lampert owns from what his fund owns - just treat ESL/RBS etc (think there might be a couple of other sub funds too) as his fund holdings and his personal holdings are what he himself owns.

 

on another note - Lampert visited our school last year for a talk.  we got to ask him questions at the end and he was asked about RE value / liquidation and he basically noted that while RE liquidation seemed like a good floor valuation when he bought the assets, once he got in there he realized the sheer scale of the company and the effect a liquidation would have on lives and couldn't bring himself to do it without trying everything he could to salvage it first. said that the thought of putting over 300,000 individuals out of a job and thus affecting over a 1m people was pretty harsh and just not something he wanted to do at this point in his life.  thought it was interesting to hear him basically say that a liquidation wasn't on the table.

 

note that he did make it quite clear that he does think the company can be turned around and there is tremendous value / cash flows a well run retailer can generate.