CorpRaider Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Hah! Poor choice of words on my part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke 532 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 How can we open new positions on JUST the Sears Holdings underlying (not including SHLDR, LE, etc.)? I've tried option chains for SHLD, SHLD1, SHLD2, etc. and nothing works. Can only close positions and can't open any positions. 3 PDF's from CBOE attached. Thanks in advance for any help!Options_1_of_3.pdfOptions_2_of_3.pdfOptions_3_of_3.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter1234 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 How can we open new positions on JUST the Sears Holdings underlying (not including SHLDR, LE, etc.)? I've tried option chains for SHLD, SHLD1, SHLD2, etc. and nothing works. Can only close positions and can't open any positions. 3 PDF's from CBOE attached. Thanks in advance for any help! When companies undergo change like splits, spinoffs etc existing options are adjusted to reflect that transformation. You will only be able to sell them. New options in the new underlyings are then issued, that can be bought and sold. Maybe the new options have not yet been issued? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke 532 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 How can we open new positions on JUST the Sears Holdings underlying (not including SHLDR, LE, etc.)? I've tried option chains for SHLD, SHLD1, SHLD2, etc. and nothing works. Can only close positions and can't open any positions. 3 PDF's from CBOE attached. Thanks in advance for any help! When companies undergo change like splits, spinoffs etc existing options are adjusted to reflect that transformation. You will only be able to sell them. I'm aware of this and totally understand. New options in the new underlyings are then issued, that can be bought and sold. Maybe the new options have not yet been issued? This is the part that's frustrating. No new options available to open positions. Shorts aren't even allowed to buy calls to hedge right now, doesn't seem right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddballstocks Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 How can we open new positions on JUST the Sears Holdings underlying (not including SHLDR, LE, etc.)? I've tried option chains for SHLD, SHLD1, SHLD2, etc. and nothing works. Can only close positions and can't open any positions. 3 PDF's from CBOE attached. Thanks in advance for any help! When companies undergo change like splits, spinoffs etc existing options are adjusted to reflect that transformation. You will only be able to sell them. I'm aware of this and totally understand. New options in the new underlyings are then issued, that can be bought and sold. Maybe the new options have not yet been issued? This is the part that's frustrating. No new options available to open positions. Shorts aren't even allowed to buy calls to hedge right now, doesn't seem right. Why not call your broker and see if they can create something? I know I've talked to brokers about creating ADRs in the past, and I know if you have a big enough account you can get specially created options on things. Maybe someone just needs a bit of a kick to get this going. Or call an investment bank, I'm guessing they'd love to create a custom security for you especially given how easy it is to hedge this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke 532 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Why not call your broker and see if they can create something? I know I've talked to brokers about creating ADRs in the past, and I know if you have a big enough account you can get specially created options on things. Maybe someone just needs a bit of a kick to get this going. Or call an investment bank, I'm guessing they'd love to create a custom security for you especially given how easy it is to hedge this. I would need a market with entire option chains. I only trade in and out 100-300 contracts at a time, so it's really not a huge deal. But it is frustrating and would be nice for there to be a market. My broker, IB, is investigating when new positions will be allowed in just the Sears Holdings underlying (not including LE, rights, etc.). Will keep you all posted when I hear back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke 532 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 My broker, IB, is investigating when new positions will be allowed in just the Sears Holdings underlying (not including LE, rights, etc.). Will keep you all posted when I hear back. Just got off the phone with IB. For just SHLD underlying (not including rights, LE, etc.) since new options are at the discretion of the OCC they could be available next week or maybe never. The IB rep said "maybe never" to cover his you-know-what because I'm pretty sure most brokerage houses enjoy collecting fees from all the SHLD-related option trades. I'd be surprised if we don't see options available for SHLD in the next week or two. Seems like a lot of would-be action left on the table for OCC and brokerage firms to not have this product available to clients. SHLD2 can take new opening trades when rights expire at 5pm on November 7th (this date could be changed by SHLD). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke 532 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Just got off the phone with IB. For just SHLD underlying (not including rights, LE, etc.) since new options are at the discretion of the OCC they could be available next week or maybe never. The IB rep said "maybe never" to cover his you-know-what because I'm pretty sure most brokerage houses enjoy collecting fees from all the SHLD-related option trades. I'd be surprised if we don't see options available for SHLD in the next week or two. Seems like a lot of would-be action left on the table for OCC and brokerage firms to not have this product available to clients. Email response from the OCC: "Typically, the exchanges will list the new standard options one day after the effective date of the adjustment. So the non-standards will be the only game in town for one day usually. However, listing is up to the exchanges, and we cannot guarantee the timing." Since the effective date listed in the PDF's I posted earlier was today, that means news SHLD-only options should be available for trade on Monday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mephistopheles Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 When should we get the rights in our account, do you know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke 532 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 When should we get the rights in our account, do you know? I already have SHLDR in my Portfolio Margin account at IB. They hit the account at some point late last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adesigar Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 When should we get the rights in our account, do you know? I already have SHLDR in my Portfolio Margin account at IB. They hit the account at some point late last night. Nothing in Ameritrade yet. I still don't get the pricing though. Right to buy at $9.50 + approx. 2.5 rights at $.34 = $10.35 per share and share is trading at $9.5. Shouldn't either the rights be virtually zero or the shares trading at around $10.35? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LC Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 I find it interesting that the word "Hochschild" has only come up one time in this thread. Buffett's old situation seems very similar to Sears, albeit on a smaller scale: I acquired a Baltimore department store, Hochschild Kohn, buying through a company called Diversified Retailing that later merged with Berkshire. I bought at a substantial discount from book value, the people were first-class, and the deal included some extras - unrecorded real estate values and a significant LIFO inventory cushion. How could I miss? So-o-o - Three years later, I was lucky to sell the business for about what I had paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ni-co Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 When should we get the rights in our account, do you know? I already have SHLDR in my Portfolio Margin account at IB. They hit the account at some point late last night. Nothing in Ameritrade yet. I still don't get the pricing though. Right to buy at $9.50 + approx. 2.5 rights at $.34 = $10.35 per share and share is trading at $9.5. Shouldn't either the rights be virtually zero or the shares trading at around $10.35? This is just option pricing influenced by the fact that shorts have to cover their positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BargainValueHunter Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-10-17/lampert-s-esl-fund-to-hold-almost-half-of-sears-canada-unit.html ESL Partners and affiliates bought 17.7 million more shares at C$10.50 ($9.50) each for a total stake of 46.7 percent, the Bay Harbor Islands, Florida-based fund said yesterday in a statement. ESL will also exercise its oversubscription privileges to bring its stake up to a maximum of 49.5 percent, the fund said. Bruce? Your move... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorpRaider Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 I find it interesting that the word "Hochschild" has only come up one time in this thread. Buffett's old situation seems very similar to Sears, albeit on a smaller scale: I acquired a Baltimore department store, Hochschild Kohn, buying through a company called Diversified Retailing that later merged with Berkshire. I bought at a substantial discount from book value, the people were first-class, and the deal included some extras - unrecorded real estate values and a significant LIFO inventory cushion. How could I miss? So-o-o - Three years later, I was lucky to sell the business for about what I had paid. So syw is blue chip stamps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elevensecsrt4 Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 rights offering for warrants and debt?...haven't read it in detail yet http://searsholdings.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=16310&item=137322 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elevensecsrt4 Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 http://searsholdings.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=16310&item=137321 also rental agreement sears leasing out space in bulk...lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke 532 Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 rights offering for warrants and debt?...haven't read it in detail yet http://searsholdings.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=16310&item=137322 Intriguing. Incredibly curious what the trading price will be on the warrants with a $28-ish strike price for 60 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke 532 Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 http://searsholdings.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=16310&item=137321 also rental agreement sears leasing out space in bulk...lol Wouldn't be surprised if we see a lot more of this in the near future to further "crystallize and highlight" their real estate value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merkhet Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 So, depending on when this transaction closes, Sears would have (through various means) raised about $2 billion in liquidity this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTShine Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 So, depending on when this transaction closes, Sears would have (through various means) raised about $2 billion in liquidity this year? That's how I see it. It looks like warrants for 22 million shares will be issued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoCitiesCapital Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Eddie and Bruce seem very committed to this investment. I'm a little disapppointed with the Sears Canada rights and now these warrants. I knew we would need to raise liquidity - I was expecting it to be from mortgage secured debt and not an increase in commitments from equity holders. Does this bother anyone else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke 532 Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Eddie and Bruce seem very committed to this investment. I'm a little disapppointed with the Sears Canada rights and now these warrants. I knew we would need to raise liquidity - I was expecting it to be from mortgage secured debt and an increase in commitments from equity holders. Does this bother anyone else? No. I very much like the idea of warrants at a strike of $28 and change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
focusinvestor Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Eddie and Bruce seem very committed to this investment. I'm a little disapppointed with the Sears Canada rights and now these warrants. I knew we would need to raise liquidity - I was expecting it to be from mortgage secured debt and an increase in commitments from equity holders. Does this bother anyone else? While it certainly takes more capital from each shareholder to remain in place, this is Eddy's backdoor way to provide long-term capital to the transformation and have all shareholders participate with a wonderful sweetener in the form of a warrant. These warrants should prove to be very valuable over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoCitiesCapital Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 So the fact that hes not monetizing the real estate as quickly as necessary to cover costs and instead needs to dilute shareholder interest by requiring more capital to maintain the same level of ownership doesn't cause anyone to second guess this thesis of real estate being the floor value? Seems to me that the floor has now become the level equity holders refuse to put up anymore capital. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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