wachtwoord Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 @IntrinsicEdge, thank you for confirming. I have come to realize my broker is unable to handle odd lot tenders and I am in the process of opening other accounts. New problem: Meanwhile, that same broker is now claiming it is correct to withold a dividend tax on the tender payout of APLE shares? They are claiming this is correct because under section 302 of the IRS revenue code a payout by the way of tender offer is considered taxable the same way as a dividend payment. I do not think this is correct? What would you tell your broker here? I really doubt that's correct. But you are Dutch right? Just subtract is from your box 3 taxes like with all dividend tax. @Yes Dutch. I will, but it is still very annoying. @Rijk. Thank you. These were done with DeGiro. I also have a Binck account and setting up IB. I have inquired with Alex and I know they are unable to execute odd lot tenders. Do you have any solid recommendations for brokers? Interactive brokers is awesome (and does not withhold this tax if you have a proper lly filled in w7) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okta Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Uralkali (URKA.IL) Odd lot with 20 or fewer GDRs. http://www.enterpro-buyback.com./memorandum/ There is only a low spread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no_thanks Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Anyone doing KCLI? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okta Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 KCLI vote on this matter is in December. This has some uncertainty. I am long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wachtwoord Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 KCLI vote on this matter is in December. This has some uncertainty. I am long. Looks like a nice opportunity. What are your arguments for being long? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddballstocks Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 KCLI vote on this matter is in December. This has some uncertainty. I am long. Looks like a nice opportunity. What are your arguments for being long? What's the uncertainty? They have said they have the votes to get it done with just insiders alone. The issue to me is what happens if too many people pile in, that's the risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hielko Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 That's exactly why this thread is a bad idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
netnet Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 That's exactly why this thread is a bad idea Greed is good. Have to disagree with you there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizaro86 Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 I was long KCLI, but I just saw that deal on the Seeking Alpha homepage. They budgeted a very small number of odd lots to cash out, they'll have a lot more than that now, so I think it is very likely that in this case the publicity has killed the deal. This happened a while ago with Hancock Fabrics, so many arbs jumped in that they cancelled the tender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wachtwoord Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Apparently their initial estimate was 800 holders of less than 250 shares. That will likely be higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizaro86 Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Apparently their initial estimate was 800 holders of less than 250 shares. That will likely be higher. They probably need to add at least 100 from seeing it here, and who knows how many from Seeking Alpha. It was on the 10 ten list of ideas on the homepage for a whole day, which has to be hundreds of thousands of people who saw it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StubbleJumper Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 I was long KCLI, but I just saw that deal on the Seeking Alpha homepage. They budgeted a very small number of odd lots to cash out, they'll have a lot more than that now, so I think it is very likely that in this case the publicity has killed the deal. This happened a while ago with Hancock Fabrics, so many arbs jumped in that they cancelled the tender. Yeah, I've been watching KCLI for 3 or 4 weeks now...but, I've been in no hurry to buy after seeing what happened with Hancock. I've occasionally looked at the trades in KCLI and I see a fair number of 249 share trades, so I'd be surprised if there wasn't a few thousand people trying to exploit this special situation. Will that be enough to kill the deal? I figured it would be good for about $1k profit if it works out, so that would be a $1k cost to continuing shareholders. Multiply that by a few thousand and it starts to look like it might be more attractive to simply not go dark. Too bad. SJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wachtwoord Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 It really depends on the companies valuation of itself. Isn't the take out price below book still? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aws Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Below book value doesn't mean much. Lots of life insurance companies trade below book value. And anyway it's more a cash issue than a valuation issue. This is way different than an odd lot tender where the company has set aside a fixed amount of money which won't increase. Here every person that gets involved costs the company an additional 13k of cash. The SEC filing said the proposed transaction would be around $10 million which will surely increase. Who knows where their breaking point is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcf129er Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Re: KCLI deal. I'm a newbie to these kinds of deals, and I was looking for some clarification regarding the following clause from the most recent 14A: """ What if I hold all of my shares in street name? If you hold shares of our Stock in street name, you are not considered the shareholder of record with respect to those shares. Shareholders who hold their shares in street name will be subject to the procedures of their nominee in respect of the Reverse/Forward Stock Split. We intend that Stock held in street name will be treated in the same manner as Stock that is held of record. However, we cannot assure that this will be the case. If a nominee holds shares for shareholders that individually beneficially own less than 250 shares of our Stock and such nominee collectively holds in excess of 250 shares of Stock, it is possible that such shares may not be exchanged for case in the Reverse/Forward Stock Split. [...] """ My opinion is that it exists to preclude any issues with those tiny arbitrageurs attempting to abuse the single account option, in other words, to prevent any one party from cashing in via a multitude of accounts. There are other reasons I can think of as well, but I see this one as standing out foremost, though I could easily be mistaken. Also, I spoke with both my broker and shareholder relations at KCLI and they indicated it shouldn't be an issue not having the physical certificates in hand. In particular, my broker, TradeKing, stated that they've processed many arb deals of this nature and it's never been a concern. More importantly, that it's a mandatory corporate action is an even greater assurance to such. One more thing: thinking about the possibility of deal termination due to over participation (there's been quite a bit of publicity on Seeking Alpha, apparently), I was wondering what others were thinking as to their threshold? Per liquidity for the deal, the following was taken from their MR10Q: ...... """ Debt and Short-Term Borrowing The Company and certain subsidiaries have access to borrowing capacity through their membership affiliation with the FHLB. At June 30, 2015 and December 31, 2014, there were no outstanding balances with the FHLB. The Company has access to unsecured revolving lines of credit of $70.0 million with two major commercial banks with no balances outstanding. These lines of credit will mature in June of 2016. The Company anticipates renewing these lines of credit as they come due. """ ......and they've an additional 24.8mm marketable sercurites AFS + 9.24mm in cash on hand. Disregarding cash brought in since 6/30/15, those amounts + the 70mm (aggregated) revolver places a potential fall thru of the deal based merely off of liquidity constraints at a minimum. That fact makes me think management (and all other parties composing the control group) won't terminate on liquidity concerns alone. Rather it'll be moreso a consideration of (a) longer payback in terms of cost savings from deregistration on an annual basis & (b) the direct costs to principal ownership (again, the control group). But (a) doesn't really seem to take into account any unknown reasons as to why they're attempting to go dark. Given an estimated 800 shareholders to be cashed out as of this summer, and assuming each holder of record maintains the maximal 249 shares, rough calculations indicate the following: [*]100 more arbs -> an additional 1.3mm, [*]500 more arbs -> an additional 6.54mm, [*]1000 more arbs -> an additional 13mm, [*]1500 more arbs -> an additional 19.6mm, at which point their organic funds would exhaust and they'd have to resort to the revolver and/or FHLB borrowings. While this is only an estimate, it puts 800 + 1500 = 2300 odd lot holders (ie. less than 250 shares) as to what I think to be the maximum reasonable breaking point in terms of # of deal participants. I hope this post wasn't too jumbled and/or repetitive of what others have said elsewhere, but I was only attempting to hash out my own personal thinking. Any answers, clarifications or corrections are welcomed in advance. -jcf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gg Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Without double checking your math, I think your general point of "too many arbs = transaction not going through" will be true in this case, so I sold my position once it made it onto Seeking Alpha... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishwithwings Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 MAMS just announced an odd-lot tender offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Eriksen Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 MAMS just announced an odd-lot tender offer. I think it is a regular tender offer, not an odd lot tender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bskptkl Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 MAMS just announced an odd-lot tender offer. I think it is a regular tender offer, not an odd lot tender. Not so: If I own fewer than 100 Shares and I tender all of my Shares, will I be subject to proration? If you own, beneficially or of record, fewer than an aggregate of 100 Shares, you properly tender all of such Shares prior to the Expiration Date (and do not properly withdraw such Shares) and you complete the section entitled “Odd Lots” in the Letter of Transmittal and, if applicable, in the Notice of Guaranteed Delivery, and all conditions to the tender offer are satisfied or waived, we will purchase all of your Shares without subjecting them to proration. See Section 1. However, I am in agreement that these are not worth posting on the internet. Agnostic about posting about exchange offers however...there is a 7% one going on now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishwithwings Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 MAMS just announced an odd-lot tender offer. I think it is a regular tender offer, not an odd lot tender. Not so: If I own fewer than 100 Shares and I tender all of my Shares, will I be subject to proration? If you own, beneficially or of record, fewer than an aggregate of 100 Shares, you properly tender all of such Shares prior to the Expiration Date (and do not properly withdraw such Shares) and you complete the section entitled “Odd Lots” in the Letter of Transmittal and, if applicable, in the Notice of Guaranteed Delivery, and all conditions to the tender offer are satisfied or waived, we will purchase all of your Shares without subjecting them to proration. See Section 1. However, I am in agreement that these are not worth posting on the internet. Agnostic about posting about exchange offers however...there is a 7% one going on now... Do you mind sharing via PM or here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LC Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 can we just delete this thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okta Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Not an odd lot, but an odd ball ;D. Hope this is Ok. This is the lowest priced dutch tender I have seen so far $WNTR. http://www.otcmarkets.com/stock/WNTR/filings not less than $0.0001 nor greater than $0.01 This Letter of Transmittal and the tax form are to be completed, signed and returned to Worldwide Diversified Holdings, Inc. with your certificate(s) by overnight courier or if by mail, registered mail, properly insured with a return receipt. Delivery to an address other than set forth in this Letter of Transmittal will not constitute a valid delivery to the company. Please read the accompanying terms and conditions and instructions before completing this Letter of Transmittal. Please read the company filings that have been filed with the OTC Markets. Is this a joke? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oplia Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 I have compiled results of all odd lot tenders and other related special situations during 2015. The year turned out to be pretty a good one mostly because Dutch tenders were bought out at (or close to) upper limits. You can find full results here http://www.specialsituationinvestments.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oplia Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 sorry, wrong link http://www.specialsituationinvestments.com/performance-2015/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest notorious546 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 sorry, wrong link http://www.specialsituationinvestments.com/performance-2015/ congrats on the returns. they look stellar. how do you tender your shares? i've looked at this type of transaction so basically i'm asking how to go about the actual transactions you've outlined there. does it depend on your broker? i have an online trading account with one of the big 5 CAD banks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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