ERICOPOLY Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Is the option held in the US? They can at least wring some tax savings from it when they write it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ourkid8 Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 No idea, it was in their presentation but they did not mention the country the option was in. Is the option held in the US? They can at least wring some tax savings from it when they write it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flesh Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Bought in at 99.04 after hours. First long position. This will be interesting. 7% position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurelius Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Buying after hours -- how does that work? Can you do it on IB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undervalued Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Philidor Said to Modify Prescriptions to Boost Valeant Sales http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-10-29/philidor-said-to-modify-prescriptions-to-boost-valeant-sales What would happen to Valeant if Philidor is found guilty? Can Philidor take down Valeant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flesh Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Buying after hours -- how does that work? Can you do it on IB? Yes you can, just click on the day button and click on fill outside RTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvalue Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 I think you have to assume that VRX will terminate its relationship with Philidor now. With CVS and Caremark out, no reason to keep them around. Write-off the 100m, maybe claw it back and move on... Ya, nice scenario if it can happen. Yes markets are reactionary but this is probably not the only scenario... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERICOPOLY Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Warner Chilcott Agrees to Plead Guilty to Felony Health Care Fraud Scheme and Pay $125 Million to Resolve Criminal Liability and False Claims Act Allegations http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/warner-chilcott-agrees-plead-guilty-felony-health-care-fraud-scheme-and-pay-125-million Warner Chilcott is owned by Allergan. Several different allegations in here, but the most relevant to VRX: In addition, the information alleges that from 2011 to 2013, Warner Chilcott employees knowingly and willfully submitted false, inaccurate, or misleading prior authorization requests and other coverage requests to federal health care programs for the osteoporosis medications Atelvia® and Actonel®. The false, inaccurate and misleading information was provided to certain insurance companies in order to overcome formulary restrictions that favored less expensive osteoporosis drugs. For instance, Warner Chilcott was aware that many insurers only paid for Atelvia® if a physician submitted an individualized request explaining why the patient could not be treated with less-expensive medications approved to treat the same conditions. As detailed in the information, Warner Chilcott sales representatives filled out numerous prior authorizations for Atelvia®, using “canned” medical justifications which often were inconsistent with the patients’ medical conditions. In some instances, according to the information, Warner Chilcott sales representatives submitted these prior authorizations directly to insurance companies, holding themselves out to be physicians. In other cases, sales representatives coached physicians and staff about which medical justifications would result in an approved prior authorization, whether or not the justification was true for a particular patient. This was listed third in the press release, so I assume the "kickbacks" and "speaker fees" were considered more damning. Hard to handicap whether Philidor's misdeeds are worth more or less than $125 million. The criminal charges against executives might be more material to the Valeant thesis. So this sounds like what the Philidor employees claim was going on at Philidor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ourkid8 Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 With the $100 million option to buy Philador, there is an indemnification clause. If I remember correctly, the maximum Valeant is liable for is $133 million. Philidor Said to Modify Prescriptions to Boost Valeant Sales http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-10-29/philidor-said-to-modify-prescriptions-to-boost-valeant-sales What would happen to Valeant if Philidor is found guilty? Can Philidor take down Valeant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flesh Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Here is my abridged VRX thread. Hope this helps some folks. It's not completely up to date, maybe it covers 75%ish. PostsValeantCornerOFberKlongthreadHIGHLIGHTS.docx.docx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tylerdurden Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Anyone knows whether these two Sequoia directors were somewhat related to the Valeant investment? Were they responsible from the fund's investment in the company or overseeing the investment? WSJ is implying that relationship but there is nothing obvious in the article.... Didn't the article say they resigned because they disagreed with the large position size of Valeant in the portfolio? That's what I read anyway... Thanks! I guess the article is updated now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
100 Shares Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 If Philidor is a mail order pharmacy, can someone explain to me what type of interaction they would have with a physical pharmacy like CVS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCLarkin Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Philidor Said to Modify Prescriptions to Boost Valeant Sales http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-10-29/philidor-said-to-modify-prescriptions-to-boost-valeant-sales What would happen to Valeant if Philidor is found guilty? Can Philidor take down Valeant? Score one for cockroach theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picasso Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Ackman probably just threw his desk out the window. Calls placed to West Wilshire in Los Angeles weren’t immediately answered. At Cambria Pharmacies, Stephen Bailkin, a manager, said, “I can’t imagine why anyone would be using my NPI number.” He declined to answer questions about Philidor and its relationship with Cambria. Yeah, can't really say that sounds too good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rishig Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 If Philidor is a mail order pharmacy, can someone explain to me what type of interaction they would have with a physical pharmacy like CVS? CVS owns the largest PBM (pharmacy benefit manager) Caremark. Private insurers use PBMs to manage pharmacy benefits. The PBM is saying Philidor is no longer in their network i.e. if a private insured gets a prescription from her doctor to get a Valeant drug that is filled by Philidor, then it will be considered out-of-network. Express scripts (another PBM) also dropped Philidor. Together, they control 53% of the prescriptions filled. Say bye bye to your favorite over-priced foot cream :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undervalued Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Philidor Said to Modify Prescriptions to Boost Valeant Sales http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-10-29/philidor-said-to-modify-prescriptions-to-boost-valeant-sales What would happen to Valeant if Philidor is found guilty? Can Philidor take down Valeant? Score one for cockroach theory. Well it looks like it's spreading to other VRX's pharmacies as well http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-10-29/cvs-terminates-philidor-valeant-partner-pharmacy-from-network Express Scripts Holding Co., the nation’s largest manager of prescription drug benefits, said in a statement that it is "in the process of terminating the Philidor pharmacy from our network." It’s also evaluating four other pharmacies that Valeant has a similar relationship with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagehot Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 With the $100 million option to buy Philador, there is an indemnification clause. If I remember correctly, the maximum Valeant is liable for is $25 or $35 million. Can anyone validate this from the presentation? Philidor Said to Modify Prescriptions to Boost Valeant Sales http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-10-29/philidor-said-to-modify-prescriptions-to-boost-valeant-sales What would happen to Valeant if Philidor is found guilty? Can Philidor take down Valeant? Been gone from this thread for two weeks and a couple hundred pages, but the question in my view is not how much the legal liability might be for Philidor (and anyway, it's likely that if this stuff rises to the level of a criminal charge whatever veil VRX thinks it has will be pierced), the question is how much VRX can grow without Philidor. B+L/Salix/Consumer are good assets. The rest of the business is iffy and might reset to a much lower base without Philidor. For example, last Q Jublia was 40% of total US organic sales growth and 50% of sales went through Philidor. What is the true demand for Jublia without Philidor jamming the insurers? I don't know. It also looks for all the world like VRX stuffed the channel with Salix to make their 3Q numbers (check their $300M salix sales estimate on the 2Q call v actual salix sales of $450M in 3Q combined with Xifaxan scripts growing at only 15% sequentially and then go read the gross:net disclosure in the 10Q MD&A--as an aside it's hard for me not to see how exploding gross:nets are not indicative of a broader issue in the business, but that's not the real point here). At any rate, the risk runs much deeper than the size of the fine in my view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
100 Shares Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 If Philidor is a mail order pharmacy, can someone explain to me what type of interaction they would have with a physical pharmacy like CVS? CVS owns the largest PBM (pharmacy benefit manager) Caremark. Private insurers use PBMs to manage pharmacy benefits. The PBM is saying Philidor is no longer in their network i.e. if a private insured gets a prescription from her doctor to get a Valeant drug that is filled by Philidor, then it will be considered out-of-network. Express scripts (another PBM) also dropped Philidor. Together, they control 53% of the prescriptions filled. Say bye bye to your favorite over-priced foot cream :) Thank you for the thorough explanation. That put it in easy to understand terms! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wellmont Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 market starting to price in 6% of revenue or more going bye bye as vrx cuts ties with them. it certainly looks like philidor is dirty. how much of this is "culture"? the question is how immunized is valeant from philidor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurelius Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Yes you can, just click on the day button and click on fill outside RTH Didn't know that, thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERICOPOLY Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 My feeling at this point is that the execs at Valeant have known for some time exactly what was going on at Philador. Hence the option agreement to attempt to contain potential fallout. I actually dumped at $98 because I need to rethink this. I thought very little of Jay Brown at MBIA for pretending like he didn't know what was going on in those Countrywide loans he was backing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tombgrt Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Philidor Said to Modify Prescriptions to Boost Valeant Sales http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-10-29/philidor-said-to-modify-prescriptions-to-boost-valeant-sales What would happen to Valeant if Philidor is found guilty? Can Philidor take down Valeant? Score one for cockroach theory. Ha yes. Looking worse with the day. Can we reinvite AZ Value or is he still banned from this thread "by" Gio? Fucking brilliant.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Hjorth Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Philidor Said to Modify Prescriptions to Boost Valeant Sales http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-10-29/philidor-said-to-modify-prescriptions-to-boost-valeant-sales What would happen to Valeant if Philidor is found guilty? Can Philidor take down Valeant? Score one for cockroach theory. Ha yes. Looking worse with the day. Can we reinvite AZ Value or is he still banned from this thread "by" Gio? Fucking brilliant.... Tom, Please stay cool, the game is focused on the ball, not the legs of the other players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERICOPOLY Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Remember when we had the 10% of book value "whoops" restatement from FFH in July 2006? Trying to keep this in perspective. The thing I'm most worried about (where so much of the value lies) is if the current management is unable to continue forward (like they're in jail or something). However I bought some back. The real thing that is bugging me and driving me insane is that literally there is a 50 acre fire out my window. It started at 5am and I woke up smelling smoke. At 6am I went to the bathroom, looked out the window, and said "that's nice the mountain is glowing red". So now my kids were home all day from school because a lot of the families are now under evacuation orders. The forecast is for a 40 MPH sundowner blowing in my direction tonight, and we're actively packing for evacuation of my house. This sucks! So yes, there really is smoke and fire! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fareastwarriors Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Sequoia's letter on VRX: http://www.sequoiafund.com/Letter%20to%20Clients%20and%20Shareholders.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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