Picasso Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 http://www.citronresearch.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Valeant-Philador-and-RandO-final-a.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S2S Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 More in Hempton's latest post: http://brontecapital.blogspot.com/2015/10/some-comments-on-valeant-conference-call.html Did the longs really not read the court documents and websites of Philidor et al after the intial SRF report or the NY Times (the Times!) article? The phone number was obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phaceliacapital Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Holy shit :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyten1 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 sorry i am new to this, one thing i dont' understand is, if R&O is philidor/vrx then why is R&O suing VRX in regards to the $69mil payment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
original mungerville Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I increased my position again. 50% at about 140ish and now another tranche at around 115ish. So I have now doubled my positions since the price drop from $240. Funny the huge arbitrage between VRX on the Toronto Exchange versus NY this morning. Its the same playbook as FFH 10 years ago. Same actors: Hempton, Roddy Boyd. Who knows, they could be right this time and I lose some money here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberty Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Holy shit :D Indeed. Quite the battleground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyG Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Not taking anything away from their research, but it is strange that both these pieces of research about essentially the same thing came out within the same hour. Just think it's strange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picasso Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 You've got bigger balls than me OM. I still need time to digest all this information and come to an unemotional conclusion. Maybe someone at R&O didn't get the message to not sue themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary17 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 sounds like fraud IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picasso Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Not taking anything away from their research, but it is strange that both these pieces of research about essentially the same thing came out within the same hour. Just think it's strange. This has been a well orchestrated bear raid from day one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phaceliacapital Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 It's clear that Citron & Hempton are working together, but what about those guys at SIRF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
original mungerville Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Could be fraud, but do you trust AZ Value / Citron / Roddy Boyd / Hempton's analyses after what they have put out in the past or Valeant/Pearson? I could certainly be making a mistake here, but I have to act on my judgement of character and what type of people are in each of the opposing camps here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ham Hockers Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 i went to grab my popcorn but tripped all over myself and spilled it everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giofranchi Posted October 21, 2015 Author Share Posted October 21, 2015 sounds like fraud IMO If it is, I have been fooled by Pearson and I will be ready to admit it. Cheers, Gio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picasso Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Ackman isn't very far away from losing close to $2 billion on this stock. I agree that the actors orchestrating this are not always the most ethical, but Valeant should be able to easily stand on their own. I'm curious to see what their response is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzCactus Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 admittedly I haven't done much research on VRX. Can anyone concisely explain what has been going on with this stock? Thanks in advance. I admire brave warrior/Glenn Greenberg and know that this is about a 40% position for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCLarkin Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 This has been a well orchestrated bear raid from day one. Yeah, Claire McCaskill just woke up one morning and decided to hate Valeant. I assume the shorts helped her along. Anyway, I am out this morning at a big loss. I doubt they are stuffing the channel but this is definitely not cheap enough given the risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grey512 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Closed my short too early, missed this morning's down-move. Congratulations to those who have stuck it out (especially if you bought puts at low implied vol earlier in the year). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpadebet Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I am in for 5% of my portfolio. bought back at the same price I bought last year :D. It felt good to sit out the last 3 months I need to dig deeper into the accusations, but to me it looks like even if what they allege is true, the fraud was committed by Phillidor on VRX & insurance companies. I don't see the translation to fraud at VRX except for guilt by association. One thing for sure, fire fighting this in the press at this moment is going to be a nightmare for VRX. I have a feeling we will see price in 80$ range soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
original mungerville Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 The company will have to respond to this. It should be interesting. I am pretty sure they aren't stuffing channels and booking sales inappropriately. There could be some other issues with the relationship that don't have good optics (despite being legal) - much like the price hikes. This is my feeling, no proof. I am just acting on character judgement here between the two groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottHall Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Interesting to me. I may either add to my position for the first time or end up selling, as I think through everything. No need to stick to your guns upon relevant new information. That said, haven't thought it all through yet. VRX is only a middle-sized position for me so I'm not too bothered either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phaceliacapital Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 So how much of sales happens through these channels? Gio, did you buy today?? Quite the entry point :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Schwab711 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Is this why they haven't provided a balance sheet yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpadebet Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Is this why they haven't provided a balance sheet yet? 8) Would you want an SEC fraud investigation? (true or not) I am sure they are talking to SEC and making sure their reporting and disclosures are good enough to avoid such investigation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBL0303 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Could be fraud, but do you trust AZ Value / Citron / Roddy Boyd / Hempton's analyses after what they have put out in the past or Valeant/Pearson? I could certainly be making a mistake here, but I have to act on my judgement of character and what type of people are in each of the opposing camps here. Isn't there another option? The Not Completely Sure bin (or the Too Hard bin as Charlie calls it)? I think it could be reasonable to think that one side or the other is more "right" but for one not to be as certain as necessary about that judgment to invest either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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