Meet Mr Money Mustache who retired at the age 30

[Liberty]

New post (which are rarer these days):

 

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2016/11/24/efficiency-is-the-highest-form-of-beauty/

[TBW]

Huge fan of mmm. That was a great post and I totally agree with him.

 

[Liberty]

Video of MMM chatting with the YNAB guy, kind of goofing around, but fun (you can skip the beginning when they're getting set up):

 

[LC]

You can buy your way into Canada as well: http://www.cic.gc.ca/englisH/immigrate/business/investors/index.asp

 

You need to have $1.6m in net worth and invest $800k in Canada.  It's a fascinating program, the government takes the $800k and invests it into government projects that create jobs.  So in essence you are paying $800k to get in, there is zero return on that money.  You get your money back without interest after five years and three months.

 

Which is essentially paying $18,800/year for 5 years (or about 100k) for your Canadian citizenship.

 

 

For US healthcare, it's crazy expensive if you're not on an employer-sponsored plan. It's absolutely ridiculous. If I was retired or whatnot, and not wealthy, I would not be living here.

 

I always ask, who is getting rich from all this? Is it the doctors? I don't think so. The government? Doubtful. Insurance/Pharma? Now we're getting warm...

[mrholty]

You can buy your way into Canada as well: http://www.cic.gc.ca/englisH/immigrate/business/investors/index.asp

 

You need to have $1.6m in net worth and invest $800k in Canada.  It's a fascinating program, the government takes the $800k and invests it into government projects that create jobs.  So in essence you are paying $800k to get in, there is zero return on that money.  You get your money back without interest after five years and three months.

 

Which is essentially paying $18,800/year for 5 years (or about 100k) for your Canadian citizenship.

 

 

For US healthcare, it's crazy expensive if you're not on an employer-sponsored plan. It's absolutely ridiculous. If I was retired or whatnot, and not wealthy, I would not be living here.

 

I always ask, who is getting rich from all this? Is it the doctors? I don't think so. The government? Doubtful. Insurance/Pharma? Now we're getting warm...

 

I don't think you absolve blame from a) the bloated hospital staff and b) the doctors.

Around here each private practice has a small lab in the basement and while they are a "seperate company" if you look into it they are owned by the doctors.  They draw blood/something everytime you go in.  The money flows back to the doctors.

 

My wife is friends with many docs and PACs.  Its strange that it was an issue 15 years ago but has died.  And that is Tort reform.  Estimates are 10%-15% of healthcare costs are due to additional services/tests performed so that doctors don't get sued.  If you ask them privately they will tell you its 2x as much as they run tests when they know its nothing. 

 

The other one is end of life care.  NPR's Planet Money did a thing on LaCrosse Wi a few years back and have updated it.

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2016/10/05/496751771/episode-521-the-town-that-loves-death

 

There should not be this much variability. 

https://www.healthaffairs.org/do/10.1377/hpb20140306.633790/full/

[oddballstocks]

You can buy your way into Canada as well: http://www.cic.gc.ca/englisH/immigrate/business/investors/index.asp

 

You need to have $1.6m in net worth and invest $800k in Canada.  It's a fascinating program, the government takes the $800k and invests it into government projects that create jobs.  So in essence you are paying $800k to get in, there is zero return on that money.  You get your money back without interest after five years and three months.

 

Which is essentially paying $18,800/year for 5 years (or about 100k) for your Canadian citizenship.

 

 

For US healthcare, it's crazy expensive if you're not on an employer-sponsored plan. It's absolutely ridiculous. If I was retired or whatnot, and not wealthy, I would not be living here.

 

I always ask, who is getting rich from all this? Is it the doctors? I don't think so. The government? Doubtful. Insurance/Pharma? Now we're getting warm...

 

I have my own plan this year.  To keep things updated, for a family of six in the US:

 

$960/mo for coverage, with a $3800 deductible and $14k total out of pocket.  I think there's a 20% co-insurance or so.

 

This isn't terrible at all.  When I was able to buy through a group it was $200 a month, plus a $5k deductible and the company paid $1000 a month on my behalf.  I was able to find something better on my own.

 

But all of that said.  If you're tapping out on health care that $18k a year is cheap.

 

Also worth noting.  I've since done some research into this.  The investor visa is ONLY available in Quebec.  Canada suspended it, but Quebec still has it.  For $1.2m USD you can become Canadian and live in Quebec.  Worth considering at least...

 

[Parsad]

You can buy your way into Canada as well: http://www.cic.gc.ca/englisH/immigrate/business/investors/index.asp

 

You need to have $1.6m in net worth and invest $800k in Canada.  It's a fascinating program, the government takes the $800k and invests it into government projects that create jobs.  So in essence you are paying $800k to get in, there is zero return on that money.  You get your money back without interest after five years and three months.

 

Which is essentially paying $18,800/year for 5 years (or about 100k) for your Canadian citizenship.

 

 

For US healthcare, it's crazy expensive if you're not on an employer-sponsored plan. It's absolutely ridiculous. If I was retired or whatnot, and not wealthy, I would not be living here.

 

I always ask, who is getting rich from all this? Is it the doctors? I don't think so. The government? Doubtful. Insurance/Pharma? Now we're getting warm...

 

I have my own plan this year.  To keep things updated, for a family of six in the US:

 

$960/mo for coverage, with a $3800 deductible and $14k total out of pocket.  I think there's a 20% co-insurance or so.

 

This isn't terrible at all.  When I was able to buy through a group it was $200 a month, plus a $5k deductible and the company paid $1000 a month on my behalf.  I was able to find something better on my own.

 

But all of that said.  If you're tapping out on health care that $18k a year is cheap.

 

Also worth noting.  I've since done some research into this.  The investor visa is ONLY available in Quebec.  Canada suspended it, but Quebec still has it.  For $1.2m USD you can become Canadian and live in Quebec.  Worth considering at least...

 

I can't believe how high insurance premiums are in the U.S.  I feel for you guys!

 

Regarding the investor visa program...the loophole everyone is exploiting is that you can still enter the Quebec program, but you don't have to live in Quebec...you can go anywhere.  Alot of people have been taking advantage of the loophole to move to BC, Alberta or Ontario.  They have not closed that loophole yet...even though they should!  Quebec gets the $1.2M, but other provinces end up footing the bill for the participant.  Cheers!

[Cigarbutt]

Would like to contribute here.

My opinion is that the Immigrant Investor Program is a good one (win/win).

Canada has repealed the Program in 2014 and the province of Quebec has maintained it in parallel.

 

Common sense and actual studies (which I can supply on demand) show that the receiving territory benefits from the arrival of immigrants who meet the criteria. Applicants must "intend" to settle in Quebec. Applicants come with a relatively large family, are often business oriented and children often get higher education.

 

The main disadvantages are that the process is relatively long and integration assistance is suboptimal.

I understand that legal assistance may be helpful. Just in case:

http://www.investorimmigrationcanada.com/

 

I don't understand the 1,2 million quoted above.

 

In addition, you may want to remember that tax rates in Canada/Quebec are relatively high and quite "progressive". If you are wealthy, the health insurance premiums that richer Americans pay may be a good relative deal.

 

I hope that everyone is happy where they are but otherwise Quebec welcomes you, especially if you're rich. :)

 

[RichardGibbons]

My opinion is that the Immigrant Investor Program is a good one (win/win).

 

I'd be interested in the stats that you have that show it's a good one.  From what I have seen, it looks like win/lose.

 

After five years, people coming in through IIP declare less income than refugees.  One could make the the argument that they're "investing" in houses, but I don't think this is a good thing when most IIPs are settling in two overcrowded cities, helping to push housing prices far out of reach of the median household.  Thus, to me, it seems like investor immigrants are a big net negative.

 

On the other hand, it seems like refugees and immigrants--who will build a life here, work hard, and contribute to the country--add far more value.

 

Richard

[Cigarbutt]

Not an easy question and there are always two sides to a coin.

 

The Program was terminated at the federal level because: opinion that it was "cash for citizenship", many stated the Program provided little or no benefit to the host country, the tax issue that you allude to and skyrocketing home prices in certain places. All these reasons are at least partially valid.

 

The issue obviously has political ramifications.

 

There are two schools of thought (described in the second link). My take is that, instead of simply repealing the program, it could have been improved (selection criteria to improve the "fit", to include a form of active management (certain provinces have that), etc).

 

http://www.immigration.ca/inc/uploads/2016/08/Fortin_Paradis-IIP_March_2010.pdf

https://www.brandonu.ca/rdi/files/2014/03/2017.05.24-Slides-Canadian-Entrepreneur-Investor-Immigration.pdf

 

Note/limitation: The first study does not cover the most recent years.

 

Final comment: The IIP accounts for a very small portion of immigrants coming to Canada and an often overlooked variable is that, concomitant to their arrival, money "deposited" is channeled into funds lending to small domestic businesses.

[rb]

Regarding the investor visa program...the loophole everyone is exploiting is that you can still enter the Quebec program, but you don't have to live in Quebec...you can go anywhere.  Alot of people have been taking advantage of the loophole to move to BC, Alberta or Ontario.  They have not closed that loophole yet...even though they should!  Quebec gets the $1.2M, but other provinces end up footing the bill for the participant.  Cheers!

That loophole cannot be closed. We are a free country and freedom of movement is guaranteed by our constitution. Specifically section 6 of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. We either scrap the program completely or people have the right to live wherever they please.

[rb]

You can buy your way into Canada as well: http://www.cic.gc.ca/englisH/immigrate/business/investors/index.asp

 

You need to have $1.6m in net worth and invest $800k in Canada.  It's a fascinating program, the government takes the $800k and invests it into government projects that create jobs.  So in essence you are paying $800k to get in, there is zero return on that money.  You get your money back without interest after five years and three months.

 

Which is essentially paying $18,800/year for 5 years (or about 100k) for your Canadian citizenship.

 

 

For US healthcare, it's crazy expensive if you're not on an employer-sponsored plan. It's absolutely ridiculous. If I was retired or whatnot, and not wealthy, I would not be living here.

 

I always ask, who is getting rich from all this? Is it the doctors? I don't think so. The government? Doubtful. Insurance/Pharma? Now we're getting warm...

Or you could apply to come up here as a regular person under the regular immigration program. That'll only cost you a few grand for processing background checks, etc. The difference is that you wait in line for a couple of years. But once you're here you still get the healthcare. We're nice like that. :)

 

Btw, why wouldn't you live in the US if you were retired? As fat as I know once you hit 65 you go on Medicare and you're on easy street healthcare wise.

[Cigarbutt]

"guaranteed by our constitution"

Definition of constitution: the way in which a thing is composed or made up; makeup; composition.

Definition of Constitution: the system of fundamental principles according to which a nation, state, corporation, or the like, is governed.

 

Isn't it revealing that the former explains the latter?

 

But then, a quote from Mr Money Mustache:

"A big part of the recipe for a good life is to love the place you live. Although you can compensate for almost any living conditions with a strong Stoic attitude and some training, it sure is nice to be surrounded by an environment that truly agrees with your constitution." (my bold)

 

Another definition of constitution: the aggregate of a person's physical and psychological characteristics.

[RichardGibbons]

Thanks Cigar.  The Fortin-Paradis paper is interesting. I don't actually buy their conclusions because most of their conclusions are derived from a survey of people who are extremely biased to present a particular view, plus they seem to hand-wave away social costs.  (Like, if you think immigration is a key component of the Vancouver bubble, what is the cost of locals not actually being able to afford accommodation in the city? What's the cost of businesses not actually being able to hire employees because it isn't economically feasible to work here when housing prices are so high?)

 

The other interesting part was the quantification of the value of the 5-year loans the investors provide the government.  If the authors believe these loans were so valuable, I wonder if they'd support the government simply borrowing money on the open market (saving most of the administrative costs of the program, while paying interest), and investing themselves without bothering with the "immigrant investor" part.  It's hard to know from the numbers they provide if this is economical, but I suspect that their number support this sort of centralized economy.

 

Nevertheless, despite the flaws, it is interesting seeing someone attempt to quantify the value.  I find the tax numbers a far more compelling argument, but I think all those tax numbers came out after this study, so the authors can't be criticized for missing those.

 

Richard

[LC]

You can buy your way into Canada as well: http://www.cic.gc.ca/englisH/immigrate/business/investors/index.asp

 

You need to have $1.6m in net worth and invest $800k in Canada.  It's a fascinating program, the government takes the $800k and invests it into government projects that create jobs.  So in essence you are paying $800k to get in, there is zero return on that money.  You get your money back without interest after five years and three months.

 

Which is essentially paying $18,800/year for 5 years (or about 100k) for your Canadian citizenship.

 

 

For US healthcare, it's crazy expensive if you're not on an employer-sponsored plan. It's absolutely ridiculous. If I was retired or whatnot, and not wealthy, I would not be living here.

 

I always ask, who is getting rich from all this? Is it the doctors? I don't think so. The government? Doubtful. Insurance/Pharma? Now we're getting warm...

Or you could apply to come up here as a regular person under the regular immigration program. That'll only cost you a few grand for processing background checks, etc. The difference is that you wait in line for a couple of years. But once you're here you still get the healthcare. We're nice like that. :)

 

Btw, why wouldn't you live in the US if you were retired? As fat as I know once you hit 65 you go on Medicare and you're on easy street healthcare wise.

 

Well, my personal situation is unique...I had the (pre-birth, haha) foresight of instructing my grandparents to emigrate to Canada from Italy and have my grandmother give birth to my mother during their 10 year 'layover' in Quebec before moving to New York. Come the great age of 17 I applied for and was granted Canadian citizenship based on my mother's citizenship. It was much more palatable for a 17 year old with no money and no idea wtf to do with his life, to pay $4k/yr for tuition vs. the prevailing rate of $30k/year in the US.

 

Citizenship is a valuable option. You can take your skills to whichever country provides the most compensation for those skills, and whichever country provides social services when you need them.

[Cigarbutt]

@RichardGibbons

I reviewed this topic.

Thanks for shining a light on my (relatively weak) assumptions and for underlying other key issues.

Live and learn.

 

 

[Liberty]

New post about installing solar panels on his roof:

 

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2018/02/07/diy-solar-power/

[Liberty]

New post, some interesting thoughts about confidence and insecurity:

 

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2018/03/09/money-and-confidence-are-interchangeable/

[bskptkl]

You can buy your way into Canada as well: http://www.cic.gc.ca/englisH/immigrate/business/investors/index.asp

 

You need to have $1.6m in net worth and invest $800k in Canada.  It's a fascinating program, the government takes the $800k and invests it into government projects that create jobs.  So in essence you are paying $800k to get in, there is zero return on that money.  You get your money back without interest after five years and three months.

 

Which is essentially paying $18,800/year for 5 years (or about 100k) for your Canadian citizenship.

 

 

For US healthcare, it's crazy expensive if you're not on an employer-sponsored plan. It's absolutely ridiculous. If I was retired or whatnot, and not wealthy, I would not be living here.

 

I always ask, who is getting rich from all this? Is it the doctors? I don't think so. The government? Doubtful. Insurance/Pharma? Now we're getting warm...

 

I have my own plan this year.  To keep things updated, for a family of six in the US:

 

$960/mo for coverage, with a $3800 deductible and $14k total out of pocket.  I think there's a 20% co-insurance or so.

 

This isn't terrible at all.  When I was able to buy through a group it was $200 a month, plus a $5k deductible and the company paid $1000 a month on my behalf.  I was able to find something better on my own.

 

But all of that said.  If you're tapping out on health care that $18k a year is cheap.

 

Also worth noting.  I've since done some research into this.  The investor visa is ONLY available in Quebec.  Canada suspended it, but Quebec still has it.  For $1.2m USD you can become Canadian and live in Quebec.  Worth considering at least...

Would you mind sharing name of insurance company?

My plan is way more expensive than that here in California.

tia

[Liberty]

Some wise words:

 

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2018/04/10/hacking-hedonic-adaptation/

[Orchard]

I do like this blog.

 

However, the message board seems really sad. A lot of people just want to spend as little money as possible and do as little as possible.

 

Saving money to do something with your life the way MMM does is great. But saving money to just sit in your 4 walls at home and not have to deal with anybody is sad.

[Liberty]

I do like this blog.

 

However, the message board seems really sad. A lot of people just want to spend as little money as possible and do as little as possible.

 

Saving money to do something with your life the way MMM does is great. But saving money to just sit in your 4 walls at home and not have to deal with anybody is sad.

 

Many people have sad lives when spending a lot of money.

 

Not wasting money doesn't magically make people better at living.

 

But it can certainly free those who do want to do things with their lives to have the ability to do so.

[Parsad]

I do like this blog.

 

However, the message board seems really sad. A lot of people just want to spend as little money as possible and do as little as possible.

 

Saving money to do something with your life the way MMM does is great. But saving money to just sit in your 4 walls at home and not have to deal with anybody is sad.

 

Some people are happy that way.  I'm perfectly content to sit in my house and look for stock ideas or read...or watch my Canucks...or a football game.  You don't have to go bungee-jumping and zip-lining while curing your own artisan meats, and then ride your bike through the streets of Paris to be happy.  Sometimes a cup of coffee and a donut is all you need!  Cheers!

[Orchard]

I do like this blog.

 

However, the message board seems really sad. A lot of people just want to spend as little money as possible and do as little as possible.

 

Saving money to do something with your life the way MMM does is great. But saving money to just sit in your 4 walls at home and not have to deal with anybody is sad.

 

Some people are happy that way.  I'm perfectly content to sit in my house and look for stock ideas or read...or watch my Canucks...or a football game.  You don't have to go bungee-jumping and zip-lining while curing your own artisan meats, and then ride your bike through the streets of Paris to be happy.  Sometimes a cup of coffee and a donut is all you need!  Cheers!

 

I would put you in my first category then. If you retire early to read books or pick stocks clearly you chose to eliminate your job to have more time for a hobby that improves your life.