TSLA - Tesla Motors

[Liberty]

Hybrids (HEV and PHEVs) are the worst of both worlds in this case, because both the electric and gas sides lose efficiency and they both have to lug each other around, so that the empty battery has to be pushed up that hill by the tiny ICE struggling in the snow and cold.

[Picasso]

Hybrids (HEV and PHEVs) are the worst of both worlds in this case, because both the electric and gas sides lose efficiency and they both have to lug each other around, so that the empty battery has to be pushed up that hill by the tiny ICE struggling in the snow and cold.

 

Meanwhile I had my wife take the Tesla to meet me up a similar winding incline and she called me super pissed off because our toddler threw up all over the back.  I wouldn't have had that problem with the Volt. 

 

But then again when I drive the toddler in the Tesla he's just laughing most of the time like it's a personal roller coaster.  Maybe she was using the regen braking too much up the hill, that can cause some nausea for other passengers because you get constant back and forth instead of smooth coasting if you're just stepping off the accelerator instead of trying to control the pace.  I'm guessing downward force of hill + strong regen + strong forces when she hit the accelerator + winding roads = no fun for the tike.

[rb]

If there is an area of concern between the performance/maintenance/reliability/etc. between an EV and ICE, which I don't think I have seen anyone bring up yet, is the range in cold climates.

Don't forget that Teslas also have VF drives. Those are not nearly as reliable as electric motors and they're no fun at all when they fails.

[boilermaker75]

Here is an article in the latest edition of IEEE Spectrum Magazine on the competition,

 

http://spectrum.ieee.org/transportation/advanced-cars/2017s-top-ten-tech-cars-chevrolet-bolt

[rkbabang]

Here is an article in the latest edition of IEEE Spectrum Magazine on the competition,

 

http://spectrum.ieee.org/transportation/advanced-cars/2017s-top-ten-tech-cars-chevrolet-bolt

 

It's a shame that GM went out of their way to make the car as ugly as humanly possible.  The big auto makers are not going to make an EV that anyone other than granola eating bearded tree huggers are going to want to drive until Tesla forces their hands. 

[rb]

http://o.aolcdn.com/dims-global/dims3/GLOB/legacy_thumbnail/750x422/quality/95/http://www.blogcdn.com/slideshows/images/slides/258/894/4/S2588944/slug/l/01-2015-bmw-i8-fd-1.jpg

 

I'd drive that

[boilermaker75]

Here is an article in the latest edition of IEEE Spectrum Magazine on the competition,

 

http://spectrum.ieee.org/transportation/advanced-cars/2017s-top-ten-tech-cars-chevrolet-bolt

 

It's a shame that GM went out of their way to make the car as ugly as humanly possible.  The big auto makers are not going to make an EV that anyone other than granola eating bearded tree huggers are going to want to drive until Tesla forces their hands.

 

If it had been a decent looking car I would have considered it. I am sticking with the model 3.

[TwoCitiesCapital]

http://o.aolcdn.com/dims-global/dims3/GLOB/legacy_thumbnail/750x422/quality/95/http://www.blogcdn.com/slideshows/images/slides/258/894/4/S2588944/slug/l/01-2015-bmw-i8-fd-1.jpg

 

I'd drive that

 

Me too.

 

BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Porsche, etc. probably wont have much problem making sexy EV vehicles. Other companies will take longer, but I'm positive there will be a handful with decent offerings in addition to Tesla at the mid-market level in addition to several at the higher-end.

 

[Liberty]

http://o.aolcdn.com/dims-global/dims3/GLOB/legacy_thumbnail/750x422/quality/95/http://www.blogcdn.com/slideshows/images/slides/258/894/4/S2588944/slug/l/01-2015-bmw-i8-fd-1.jpg

 

I'd drive that

 

Meh. It looks pretty good, but looks aren't everything. Starts at $136k and not even a full EV:

 

The production i8 has a 7.1 kWh lithium-ion battery pack with a usable capacity of 5.2 kWh and intelligent energy management that delivers an all-electric range of 37 km (23 mi) under the NEDC cycle. Under the EPA cycle, the range in EV mode is 15 mi (24 km)

 

Probably will be produced in super low volumes. It's basically a show car to get PR at this point.

 

Global sales since mid-2014 totaled more than 10,000 BMW i8s by early November 2016

 

10,000 sold in a couple years...

[rkbabang]

Here is an article in the latest edition of IEEE Spectrum Magazine on the competition,

 

http://spectrum.ieee.org/transportation/advanced-cars/2017s-top-ten-tech-cars-chevrolet-bolt

 

It's a shame that GM went out of their way to make the car as ugly as humanly possible.  The big auto makers are not going to make an EV that anyone other than granola eating bearded tree huggers are going to want to drive until Tesla forces their hands.

 

If it had been a decent looking car I would have considered it. I am sticking with the model 3.

 

Me as well, only I'd still probably wait for the Model 3.  I had such bad experiences with Chevy and Ford in the 80's when I first got my license that I've been buying only Toyota and more recently Hyundai every since.  There is still a feeling I get when I see the words "Ford", "Chevrolet", or "GM" on a vehicle (or any of their corresponding logos) that just turns me off.  I very well might never own another such vehicle as long as I live.

 

[boilermaker75]

Here is an article in the latest edition of IEEE Spectrum Magazine on the competition,

 

http://spectrum.ieee.org/transportation/advanced-cars/2017s-top-ten-tech-cars-chevrolet-bolt

 

It's a shame that GM went out of their way to make the car as ugly as humanly possible.  The big auto makers are not going to make an EV that anyone other than granola eating bearded tree huggers are going to want to drive until Tesla forces their hands.

 

If it had been a decent looking car I would have considered it. I am sticking with the model 3.

 

Me as well, only I'd still probably wait for the Model 3.  I had such bad experiences with Chevy and Ford in the 80's when I first got my license that I've been buying only Toyota and more recently Hyundai every since.  There is still a feeling I get when I see the words "Ford", "Chevrolet", or "GM" on a vehicle (or any of their corresponding logos) that just turns me off.  I very well might never own another such vehicle as long as I live.

 

I'm considerably older than you. So I can remember the GM cars we had in the late 50s, a Buick Special, and the chevys in the 60s and 70s. My first car was a '68 Firebird. I had that car for about 10 years. Drove it a couple of time back-and-forth from the Midwest to California. I can't remember doing anything but oil changes, which I did, and new tires. So I have some good memories of US made cars.

 

The last 30 years I have owned a Saab followed by a VW. I loved the Saab but I won't buy a VW again.

[rkbabang]

Here is an article in the latest edition of IEEE Spectrum Magazine on the competition,

 

http://spectrum.ieee.org/transportation/advanced-cars/2017s-top-ten-tech-cars-chevrolet-bolt

 

It's a shame that GM went out of their way to make the car as ugly as humanly possible.  The big auto makers are not going to make an EV that anyone other than granola eating bearded tree huggers are going to want to drive until Tesla forces their hands.

 

If it had been a decent looking car I would have considered it. I am sticking with the model 3.

 

Me as well, only I'd still probably wait for the Model 3.  I had such bad experiences with Chevy and Ford in the 80's when I first got my license that I've been buying only Toyota and more recently Hyundai every since.  There is still a feeling I get when I see the words "Ford", "Chevrolet", or "GM" on a vehicle (or any of their corresponding logos) that just turns me off.  I very well might never own another such vehicle as long as I live.

 

I'm considerably older than you. So I can remember the GM cars we had in the late 50s, a Buick Special, and the chevys in the 60s and 70s. My first car was a '68 Firebird. I had that car for about 10 years. Drove it a couple of time back-and-forth from the Midwest to California. I can't remember doing anything but oil changes, which I did, and new tires. So I have some good memories of US made cars.

 

The last 30 years I have owned a Saab followed by a VW. I loved the Saab but I won't buy a VW again.

 

Yeah, I know it is irrational and the 70s-80s were just a bad time for American cars, but I still have hard feeling I guess.  I traded in a little 2-wheel drive Toyota pickup (my first car) for a 1983 4-cylinder Mustang with 80K miles on it.  That car didn't last me a year and I was wishing I had my Toyota back.  Then I got an early 80s Chevy Cavalier with less than 100K miles on it.  That was by far the worst car I ever owned.  I don't think I ever had a whole week without problems.  I didn't even try to sell it, I would have felt bad, so I just sold it to a junk yard to scrap it.  Of course that was a time when I didn't exactly have money to waste on unreliable cars.  I'm still holding a grudge to this day.

 

[Liberty]

https://electrek.co/2017/04/09/tesla-solar-panel-panasonic/

[boilermaker75]

Parking issue at Tesla,

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/elon-musk-has-an-awkward-problem-at-tesla-employee-parking-1491926275

[Jurgis]

Parking issue at Tesla,

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/elon-musk-has-an-awkward-problem-at-tesla-employee-parking-1491926275

 

Is WSJ now a click bait newssource?  8)

 

(I don't have access. Maybe it's a serious article).

[boilermaker75]

Parking issue at Tesla,

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/elon-musk-has-an-awkward-problem-at-tesla-employee-parking-1491926275

 

Is WSJ now a click bait newssource?  8)

 

(I don't have access. Maybe it's a serious article).

 

Sorry, I didn't realize one needed a subscription to get this article. I guess it must log me in automatically.

 

Edit: It is basically about how Tesla now has more employees than parking spots and the resulting issues.

[fareastwarriors]

Parking issue at Tesla,

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/elon-musk-has-an-awkward-problem-at-tesla-employee-parking-1491926275

 

Is WSJ now a click bait newssource?  8)

 

(I don't have access. Maybe it's a serious article).

 

Sorry, I didn't realize one needed a subscription to get this article. I guess it must log me in automatically.

 

Edit: It is basically about how Tesla now has more employees than parking spots and the resulting issues.

 

 

Here you go!

Elon_Musk_Has_an_Awkward_Problem_at_Tesla__Employee_Parking_-_WSJ.pdf

[Liberty]

A few recent Musk tweets:

 

"Tesla Semi truck unveil set for September. Team has done an amazing job. Seriously next level."

 

"@SamGonzales Next gen Roadster will be convertible"

 

"@NoahMagel Pickup truck unveil in 18 to 24 months"

 

"@elonmusk timeframe for Model 3 final unveil?"

 

"@gucci_mau July"

[rkbabang]

Why Apple Should Buy Tesla and Make Elon Musk CEO

 

Something tells me Tim Cook wouldn't agree with this.

 

But I'm sure Musk has a ton of ideas on how to put Apple's cash to work. 

 

[Jurgis]

Why Apple Should Buy Tesla and Make Elon Musk CEO

 

Something tells me Tim Cook wouldn't agree with this.

 

But I'm sure Musk has a ton of ideas on how to put Apple's cash to work.

 

Apple might buy Tesla. I don't think Elon would agree to be Apple CEO even if offered. But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe he'd see that as an opportunity to turn Apple into neural lace company.  8) (+ all the Tesla businesses acquired)

[rkbabang]

Why Apple Should Buy Tesla and Make Elon Musk CEO

 

Something tells me Tim Cook wouldn't agree with this.

 

But I'm sure Musk has a ton of ideas on how to put Apple's cash to work.

 

Apple might buy Tesla. I don't think Elon would agree to be Apple CEO even if offered. But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe he'd see that as an opportunity to turn Apple into neural lace company.  8) (+ all the Tesla businesses acquired)

 

 

He could make Cook general manager of the i-products division and still spend most of his time with Tesla and SpaceX and whatever else.  He could buy out that Hyperloop company and still have money to fund the neural lace and underground tunnels and god knows what else.

 

 

[no_free_lunch]

I know it is a bit of a crazy comparison but greenwood investors point out Ferrari has gross incremental margins of 70%.  I can calculate 45% from their income statement so I am not sure where the incremental number comes from so take it with a grain of salt.  Still even with the straight numbers on the income statement they are selling some profitable vehicles.  Now I know that Tesla will not achieve that level of margin but with their higher volume why couldn't they do 30%?  The autopilot is pure profit and will be $9-10k from what I have heard.  So if they sell a $35k car with upgrades for $50k, then $10k for the auto-pilot is $60k.  If they do 20% on the 50k that is $10k + 10k for the autopilot would give $20k or 33.3% margin per vehicle.

 

RACE Has been a momentum stock, and we’ve been “feeding the birds,” with great confidence in the nearterm

future of Ferrari. Most still miss the >70% incremental profit margins on vehicles.

 

https://www.gwinvestors.com/wp-content/uploads/2017.04.06-Q1-2017-Letter-Conscious-Capitalists-w-Appendix.pdf

[bookie71]

Dumb question: Who is the supplier of the batteries for the other automotive companies?

[Liberty]

Dumb question: Who is the supplier of the batteries for the other automotive companies?

 

You can typically find that pretty easily by just checking the Wikipedia page for a vehicle. LG Chem does a lot of the cells for GM, Panasonic works with Tesla.

 

One thing that many people misunderstand, though, is the difference between the battery cells and the battery pack. How the cells are packaged (density, how thermals are managed, the software that manages charging and discharging, etc) is one way to add value. As Samsung has discovered with the Note 7, what you do with the cells matters a lot.

[blainehodder]

I know it is a bit of a crazy comparison but greenwood investors point out Ferrari has gross incremental margins of 70%.  I can calculate 45% from their income statement so I am not sure where the incremental number comes from so take it with a grain of salt.  Still even with the straight numbers on the income statement they are selling some profitable vehicles.  Now I know that Tesla will not achieve that level of margin but with their higher volume why couldn't they do 30%?  The autopilot is pure profit and will be $9-10k from what I have heard.  So if they sell a $35k car with upgrades for $50k, then $10k for the auto-pilot is $60k.  If they do 20% on the 50k that is $10k + 10k for the autopilot would give $20k or 33.3% margin per vehicle.

 

RACE Has been a momentum stock, and we’ve been “feeding the birds,” with great confidence in the nearterm

future of Ferrari. Most still miss the >70% incremental profit margins on vehicles.

 

https://www.gwinvestors.com/wp-content/uploads/2017.04.06-Q1-2017-Letter-Conscious-Capitalists-w-Appendix.pdf

 

Assuming the free market still works, product margins on 40-50k cars will not be even close to that high as competition grinds it down.