Jurgis Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 recycle the Oldsmobile badge for electric hybrids and 100% electrics. ROFL. 8) I wonder how the heck anyone ever bought a car called "Oldsmobile"... ::) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boilermaker75 Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 I am keen to see whether Model 3 has a considerably lower rate of problems than the S and X. I'd hope its comparative simplicity, lessons already learned and the improved access to Tier 1 suppliers can all combine to give it Toyota/Honda levels of reliability and manufacturing control. At least it has no falcon wing doors packed with sensors or self presenting door handles. and eventually more reliable than Toyotas and Hondas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurgis Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 I am keen to see whether Model 3 has a considerably lower rate of problems than the S and X. I'd hope its comparative simplicity, lessons already learned and the improved access to Tier 1 suppliers can all combine to give it Toyota/Honda levels of reliability and manufacturing control. At least it has no falcon wing doors packed with sensors or self presenting door handles. and eventually more reliable than Toyotas and Hondas. Yeah, that's definitely an important area that is a bit scary for me, especially when the repair center is about 20 miles away and may be jammed with broken cars if Model 3 is successful but lemony. Sudden engine death on the freeway is another scary situation. I think Picasso mentioned that in regards to Model S. BTW, not trying to diss Tesla or start a flame war re its reliability. Just things that I am personally concerned about and would be very happy if the reliability was great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberty Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 In theory, EV reliability should be higher than ICE. There are just order of magnitude fewer moving parts and fluids and things to wear out. The surprising thing about ICE is that it even works as well as it does (and thermal efficiency is still low, in the 30% range, and you need servicing every year), and it took decades to get there, and it's not like people never have problems with their ICEs. I think intuitively we expect that it'll take as long for EVs to mature, but that's comparing apples and oranges, IMO. My favorite way to think about it is that ICEs are more like spinning platter hard drives and EVs more like SSDs, but even that isn't quite right since spinning platter hard drives are still entirely sealed, electric, and have relatively few moving parts. Maybe it's more like comparing a lawnmower and a hard drive... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jschembs Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 In theory, EV reliability should be higher than ICE. There are just order of magnitude fewer moving parts and fluids and things to wear out. The surprising thing about ICE is that it even works as well as it does (and thermal efficiency is still low, in the 30% range, and you need servicing every year), and it took decades to get there, and it's not like people never have problems with their ICEs. I think intuitively we expect that it'll take as long for EVs to mature, but that's comparing apples and oranges, IMO. My favorite way to think about it is that ICEs are more like spinning platter hard drives and EVs more like SSDs, but even that isn't quite right since spinning platter hard drives are still entirely sealed, electric, and have relatively few moving parts. Maybe it's more like comparing a lawnmower and a hard drive... I generally agree with much of this, but a couple of thoughts: 1. Have EVs had enough time to prove out longer-term battery life? If, for example, batteries start reliably wearing out at 100k miles, that could be a problem. 2. The Model S drivetrains have had notorious issues with the weight of the battery platform. Perhaps this will be engineered away in current/future iterations. I see lots of commentary extolling the virtues of simplistic EV design vs ICE, but we also have decades of headaches over the myriad ways an ICE can be a lemon, yet only a few years (and really zero with the mass-market audience that are less willing to tolerate minor problems) with EVs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkbabang Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 In theory, EV reliability should be higher than ICE. There are just order of magnitude fewer moving parts and fluids and things to wear out. The surprising thing about ICE is that it even works as well as it does (and thermal efficiency is still low, in the 30% range, and you need servicing every year), and it took decades to get there, and it's not like people never have problems with their ICEs. I think intuitively we expect that it'll take as long for EVs to mature, but that's comparing apples and oranges, IMO. My favorite way to think about it is that ICEs are more like spinning platter hard drives and EVs more like SSDs, but even that isn't quite right since spinning platter hard drives are still entirely sealed, electric, and have relatively few moving parts. Maybe it's more like comparing a lawnmower and a hard drive... Yes, with EVs there are no oil changes, no transmission fluid, liquid cooling system that requires fluid changes and maintenance (antifreeze, radiator, thermostat and water pump, head gasket, etc), no muffler, no catalytic converter or long exhaust pipes under the car prone to rust. There is a breaking system, but because of regenerative breaking it is used far less often and lasts far longer between pad/rotor problems. You do still need tires when they wear out. Someone mentioned above that people shouldn't go to dealerships for oil changes, but "should" has nothing to do with it, because many people do go to the dealership for oil changes, break problems, all types of problems and routine maintenance, even for new tires. This is in fact how the dealerships make their money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PullTheTrigger Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Dealers are often competitive for service. I compared dealer pricing on brakes to three independents and they were similar in price, especially when they run specials (Toyota dealer). Same for oil changes. Often, they have ongoing coupons that make it very similar to oil change shops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberty Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/auto-industry/2017-tesla-model-3-has-unexpected-electric-motor-design.html "The 2017 Tesla Model 3 sedan uses a permanent magnet electric motor instead of the AC induction motors used in all Tesla products to date" PM motors are more efficient, so long as you're not intent on building a hyperperformance machine. This makes them a better choice for daily-driven commuter vehicles. Not to oversimplify it too much, but AC induction motors have to use some of the electricity stored in the car's battery to generate the necessary magnetism within the motor. Permanent magnet motors have no need for this because they are made using, as the name suggests, permanently magnetic materials. This change has many cascading benefits, especially if you are trying to build a smaller, less-expensive electric car. A more efficient electric motor means you can use a smaller battery to achieve a given range, which not only lowers the price, but also reduces the battery's weight and footprint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boilermaker75 Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/auto-industry/2017-tesla-model-3-has-unexpected-electric-motor-design.html "The 2017 Tesla Model 3 sedan uses a permanent magnet electric motor instead of the AC induction motors used in all Tesla products to date" PM motors are more efficient, so long as you're not intent on building a hyperperformance machine. This makes them a better choice for daily-driven commuter vehicles. Not to oversimplify it too much, but AC induction motors have to use some of the electricity stored in the car's battery to generate the necessary magnetism within the motor. Permanent magnet motors have no need for this because they are made using, as the name suggests, permanently magnetic materials. This change has many cascading benefits, especially if you are trying to build a smaller, less-expensive electric car. A more efficient electric motor means you can use a smaller battery to achieve a given range, which not only lowers the price, but also reduces the battery's weight and footprint. Interesting. I would like to know more about the magnets. Maybe the motor is like this, LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberty Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 Model S with 300,000 miles driven in 2 years: https://electrek.co/2017/08/30/tesla-model-s-hits-300000-miles-in-just-2-years-saving/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberty Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 Interesting data on battery degradation (for those who worry that you have to buy a whole new battery frequently): https://steinbuch.wordpress.com/2015/01/24/tesla-model-s-battery-degradation-data/ Note that after hundreds of thousands of kilometers, ICE vehicles also have wear and tear and aren't as efficient (aka have a lower range on the same amount of fuel) than when they were new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racemize Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 That's better than I thought--do they have a similar curve based on age? Or is mileage/recharges the only thing that matters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoCitiesCapital Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 Interesting data on battery degradation (for those who worry that you have to buy a whole new battery frequently): https://steinbuch.wordpress.com/2015/01/24/tesla-model-s-battery-degradation-data/ Note that after hundreds of thousands of kilometers, ICE vehicles also have wear and tear and aren't as efficient (aka have a lower range on the same amount of fuel) than when they were new. Much better than I would have anticipated - thanks for sharing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberty Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 That's better than I thought--do they have a similar curve based on age? Or is mileage/recharges the only thing that matters? If you follow the link, they have one for age, and there's a lot of comments below the post with more info. I think charging cycles is the main thing for these types of batteries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberty Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 https://electrek.co/2017/09/04/how-tesla-model-s-holds-up-time/ How 5-year old Model S holds up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepydragon Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 I have been trying to get my deposit back after cancelling my model 3 order. It has been almost a month and I still haven't received my money. I heard Tesla are very slow in returning the deposit. People wait for at least a month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBL0303 Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 I have been trying to get my deposit back after cancelling my model 3 order. It has been almost a month and I still haven't received my money. I heard Tesla are very slow in returning the deposit. People wait for at least a month. Just curious, why are you canceling your order? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abyli Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 I have been trying to get my deposit back after cancelling my model 3 order. It has been almost a month and I still haven't received my money. I heard Tesla are very slow in returning the deposit. People wait for at least a month. I cancelled my model 3 order and received a check. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepydragon Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 I have been trying to get my deposit back after cancelling my model 3 order. It has been almost a month and I still haven't received my money. I heard Tesla are very slow in returning the deposit. People wait for at least a month. Just curious, why are you canceling your order? Mainly because we need to get a SUV instead of sedan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepydragon Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 Got the check today Guess which bank does Tesla use? It's Wells Fargo 8) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberty Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 New Nissan Leaf: https://electrek.co/2017/09/05/nissan-leaf-2018-next-gen-3/ http://www.greencarcongress.com/2017/09/20170906-leaf.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkbabang Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 Mazda Takes A Swing At Tesla With 2 Electric Cars https://seekingalpha.com/article/4105054-mazda-takes-swing-tesla-2-electric-cars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberty Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 I thought this was a good read. “Even if the price of lithium soars 300 percent, battery pack costs would rise only by about 2 percent.“ https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2017-lithium-battery-future/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boilermaker75 Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 IEEE Spectrum article on Electric Planes, https://spectrum.ieee.org/aerospace/aviation/cheaper-lighter-quieter-the-electrification-of-flight-is-at-hand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberty Posted September 11, 2017 Share Posted September 11, 2017 https://electrek.co/2017/09/11/tesla-unveils-new-urban-supercharger-with-slower-charge-rate/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now