A Dhandho Investor Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 The shorts keep on doing the DD, but nothing matters obviously :) https://seekingalpha.com/article/4346580-tesla-and-carvana-peculiar-relationship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jalebijim Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 The shorts keep on doing the DD, but nothing matters obviously :) https://seekingalpha.com/article/4346580-tesla-and-carvana-peculiar-relationship Hahahhahhahaa More like the shorts keep on making up lies and none of them stick. The "accurate" price that shorts list for a used 2019 model 3 is $30,000 but they failed to mention that it is a single salvage car! Nice try, trying to make up lies just like the media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jalebijim Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 The shorts keep on doing the DD, but nothing matters obviously :) https://seekingalpha.com/article/4346580-tesla-and-carvana-peculiar-relationship https://electrek.co/2020/02/18/tesla-model-3-leads-value-retention/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Dhandho Investor Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 The shorts keep on doing the DD, but nothing matters obviously :) https://seekingalpha.com/article/4346580-tesla-and-carvana-peculiar-relationship https://electrek.co/2020/02/18/tesla-model-3-leads-value-retention/ The results of the study do not discredit what is in the SA article. If a manipulation of second hand Tesla prices is going on you would indeed expect them to lose on average very little value over competitors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jalebijim Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 The shorts keep on doing the DD, but nothing matters obviously :) https://seekingalpha.com/article/4346580-tesla-and-carvana-peculiar-relationship https://electrek.co/2020/02/18/tesla-model-3-leads-value-retention/ The results of the study do not discredit what is in the SA article. If a manipulation of second hand Tesla prices is going on you would indeed expect them to lose on average very little value over competitors. You keep telling yourself that. Writing false SA articles by misrepresenting salvage car prices as a true indicator of clean used car prices is not what I consider due diligence. That was the biggest fraud in the article, I don't have to get into all the other lies by that short. If someone falsely asked you are you still beating your wife? Will you have a 40 minute discussion with them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jalebijim Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 The shorts keep on doing the DD, but nothing matters obviously :) https://seekingalpha.com/article/4346580-tesla-and-carvana-peculiar-relationship https://electrek.co/2020/02/18/tesla-model-3-leads-value-retention/ The results of the study do not discredit what is in the SA article. If a manipulation of second hand Tesla prices is going on you would indeed expect them to lose on average very little value over competitors. Hahahhahha. That article the SHORT guy wrote is so fraudulent, it is more entertaining than fiction. 1. Author used a salvage car price in the first draft of the article. 2. Apologizes for using the salvage car pricing in the correction to the article and puts up a second low used car price. 3. The correction to the article fraudulent also because it also uses another salvaged used car price. So much for DD. https://en.bidfax.info/tesla/model-3/3589275-tesla-model-3-2019-red-u-vin-5yj3e1ea1kf396515.html Your lack of research would really disappoint Monish, Dhandho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Dhandho Investor Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 Dalal, please log out of your burner account before replying with 2 different replies to the same message... It seems that you do not get the point of the SA article, which is why would a 2019 used car sell for a higher price at Carvana than a new car? And how come that all those cars were listed on Carvana in two large batches, suggesting that they come from a single source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jalebijim Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 Shorting this thing seems to require a much greater burden of proof than going long (as short positions usually do). 1) asymmetry is working against you as your downside is limitless and upside limited (even if buying puts, option premium is pretty high here); 2) cost of borrowing shares is expensive; 3) cash flush tech firm likely to take this whole thing out at $20-30B valuation creating a floor for stock price (consider the fact that a few years ago, FB bought WhatsApp--that's right, a messaging app--for $20B), 4) this is a "hot" stock driven a lot by underlying bullish speculation, leaving shorts vulnerable to potentially devastating losses. The Model 3 has become the best selling luxury car in America and broken to the top 5 of all cars sold. Let that sink in. And thus far, it's been selling the high margin high ATP models and still beat out much cheaper equivalent sedans in sales. There is a lot more demand out there and most sales have only been to U.S. customers (yet a global market exists for the model). Don't know what shorts have to stand on when they point out that only $45K+ models have been selling thus far (that is bad as an indication for demand and profitability how?). Through SpaceX and Tesla, Musk has significantly impacted the world in a positive way whether you like his behavior or not. I agree that shorting requires a greater burden of proof, but I disagree that there is a floor on the stock price at a valuation of $20-30B. You should consider the following: - Most assets are already pledged (either via asset-backed loans or like the Gigafactory that actually belongs to Panasonic) - Tesla's brand equity is decreasing (lot's of M3 quality issues, delivery issues, 420 tweet lawsuits, lack of investment in service centers) - Tesla is behind the competition with respect to Full Self Driving -This remains a one man show. What if Musk leaves or is forced to leave? - Bond markets are more sophisticated than equity markets. Tesla's debt is trading at CCC levels - Competition is coming. I admit it is a small sample size, but here in Belgium there are a lot of leased cars and my company (Deloitte) has selected the iPace instead of a Tesla at the executive level. Anyways, sales of model S and Model X are flat year-over-year so the growth should come from the M3, which, as indicated, still has lot's of quality issues. - Besides lack of intellectual property: if you believe that Tesla has some kind of manufacturing advantage, you should definitely read this article: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/19/tesla-ceo-elon-musk-extreme-micro-manager.html - the article also touches upon further proof of accounting fraud (mechanics working at Fremont booking their time on "training" or "R&D") So all in all, this could definitely be a 0 imo. Love the accuracy of your old posts Dhandho Nostradamus! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalal.Holdings Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 The shorts keep on doing the DD, but nothing matters obviously :) https://seekingalpha.com/article/4346580-tesla-and-carvana-peculiar-relationship The "accurate" price that shorts list for a used 2019 model 3 is $30,000 but they failed to mention that it is a single salvage car! Amusing--have seen this level of "analysis" from these folks numerous times. For many TSLAQ members, it has become a cult/social club similar to the one they mock. Led by leaders like Montana Skeptic. They have their own group meetings, podcasts, articles, etc etc. Well, except the cult they mock is led by a guy who wants to make cars sustainable and get to Mars while the cult they're in wants to tear that guy down (take your pick on which one you'd rather support). I posted this many pages back, but it gives insight into the (not so pretty) existence of some of these folk: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-01-22/the-tesla-tslaq-skeptics-who-bet-against-elon-musk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalal.Holdings Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 Dalal, please log out of your burner account before replying with 2 different replies to the same message... There's no coordination. Your arguments are just that bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jalebijim Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 The shorts keep on doing the DD, but nothing matters obviously :) https://seekingalpha.com/article/4346580-tesla-and-carvana-peculiar-relationship The "accurate" price that shorts list for a used 2019 model 3 is $30,000 but they failed to mention that it is a single salvage car! Well, except the cult they mock is led by a guy who wants to make cars sustainable and get to Mars while the cult they're in wants to tear that guy down (take your pick on which one you'd rather support). Some people can be so dark, don't know where all that negativity and hate comes from. He is trying to do good things for the world and there are people constantly trying to tear him down. Elon might succeed or fail, no one knows the future for sure. But I am rooting for him and putting my money where my mouth is. Look at the pictures of Los Angeles without the smog from burning gasoline. Future generations will laugh at us, those idiots used to breathing in all those toxic chemicals. https://www.businessinsider.com/photos-stay-at-home-order-reduced-los-angeles-notorious-smog-2020-4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalal.Holdings Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 Shorting this thing seems to require a much greater burden of proof than going long (as short positions usually do). 1) asymmetry is working against you as your downside is limitless and upside limited (even if buying puts, option premium is pretty high here); 2) cost of borrowing shares is expensive; 3) cash flush tech firm likely to take this whole thing out at $20-30B valuation creating a floor for stock price (consider the fact that a few years ago, FB bought WhatsApp--that's right, a messaging app--for $20B), 4) this is a "hot" stock driven a lot by underlying bullish speculation, leaving shorts vulnerable to potentially devastating losses. The Model 3 has become the best selling luxury car in America and broken to the top 5 of all cars sold. Let that sink in. And thus far, it's been selling the high margin high ATP models and still beat out much cheaper equivalent sedans in sales. There is a lot more demand out there and most sales have only been to U.S. customers (yet a global market exists for the model). Don't know what shorts have to stand on when they point out that only $45K+ models have been selling thus far (that is bad as an indication for demand and profitability how?). Through SpaceX and Tesla, Musk has significantly impacted the world in a positive way whether you like his behavior or not. I agree that shorting requires a greater burden of proof, but I disagree that there is a floor on the stock price at a valuation of $20-30B. You should consider the following: - Most assets are already pledged (either via asset-backed loans or like the Gigafactory that actually belongs to Panasonic) - Tesla's brand equity is decreasing (lot's of M3 quality issues, delivery issues, 420 tweet lawsuits, lack of investment in service centers) - Tesla is behind the competition with respect to Full Self Driving -This remains a one man show. What if Musk leaves or is forced to leave? - Bond markets are more sophisticated than equity markets. Tesla's debt is trading at CCC levels - Competition is coming. I admit it is a small sample size, but here in Belgium there are a lot of leased cars and my company (Deloitte) has selected the iPace instead of a Tesla at the executive level. Anyways, sales of model S and Model X are flat year-over-year so the growth should come from the M3, which, as indicated, still has lot's of quality issues. - Besides lack of intellectual property: if you believe that Tesla has some kind of manufacturing advantage, you should definitely read this article: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/19/tesla-ceo-elon-musk-extreme-micro-manager.html - the article also touches upon further proof of accounting fraud (mechanics working at Fremont booking their time on "training" or "R&D") So all in all, this could definitely be a 0 imo. Love the accuracy of your old posts Dhandho Nostradamus! :) Clearly more "nothing" drivel by Dalal Holdings written here as my greatest critics on CoBF note about my postings on this here forum. As Nostradamus predicted based on robust DD, the iPace is crushing Tesla and the Taycan is coming up next! Can't say I didn't warn against taking short positions on this thing...(*smugness intensifies*) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRM Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 On Elon's recent Joe Rogan interview he said that he thinks too many smart minds are wasted in law and finance. I agree with this, however, coming from a sociopath this would make me very nervous to be a Tesla shareholder. He has made it clear that he thinks he is above the law, and he apparently has no apprehension about breaking the law. He is making it clear that investors (such as Warren Buffett) exist to be exploited for Elon's personal interests (which are disguised as public interest). If you listen to the Rogan interview and hear Musk talk about neuralink and still think he is a genius, I don't think you can be helped. Not long or short, just enjoying the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalal.Holdings Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 On Elon's recent Joe Rogan interview he said that he thinks too many smart minds are wasted in law and finance. I agree with this, however, coming from a sociopath this would make me very nervous to be a Tesla shareholder. He has made it clear that he thinks he is above the law, and he apparently has no apprehension about breaking the law. He is making it clear that investors (such as Warren Buffett) exist to be exploited for Elon's personal interests (which are disguised as public interest). If you listen to the Rogan interview and hear Musk talk about neuralink and still think he is a genius, I don't think you can be helped. Not long or short, just enjoying the show. I don’t think the law and finance comment said anything about how he views laws in general. Whether or not Elon is a sociopath is not that relevant. He’s not President of the United States, he’s the CEO of two entities in the private sector, so collateral damage from his actions is limited (unlike if you put someone like that in the White House). Someone in the private sector should be like Elon and exploit asymmetry—try to seek out huge potential upside while recognizing that downside of corporation is low (unless you are a corporation like a big bank where your demise can cause systemic harm). I listened to his neuralink remarks and the idea of using electrical stimulation/implantation of leads to correct symptoms of Parkinson’s or Epilepsy is nothing radical. If neuralink can replicate that with lots of leads (as they demonstrate in a publication), that will immensely help patients and potentially there is room for other disorders like stroke injuries. Starting off neuralink by treating patients with devastating brain injuries is the smart way to start, once you can prove that, you can move onto more radical goals. It’s like the progression from Roadster to S to X to 3. Or from a rocket company that starts off with contracts to launch satelites then resupply the space station then manned launches then even loftier ambitions. It’s all very logical and refreshing in a corporate world where every other creative “genius” CEO can only come up with buybacks when considering how to allocate capital/resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jalebijim Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 On Elon's recent Joe Rogan interview he said that he thinks too many smart minds are wasted in law and finance. I agree with this, however, coming from a sociopath this would make me very nervous to be a Tesla shareholder. He has made it clear that he thinks he is above the law, and he apparently has no apprehension about breaking the law. He is making it clear that investors (such as Warren Buffett) exist to be exploited for Elon's personal interests (which are disguised as public interest). If you listen to the Rogan interview and hear Musk talk about neuralink and still think he is a genius, I don't think you can be helped. Not long or short, just enjoying the show. You have been biased against TSLA for a long time, maybe you should've bought Tesla instead of GM stock. Isn't three years of having been wrong about Tesla long enough for you. Hope your fossil fuel KMI position is treating you well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRM Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 On Elon's recent Joe Rogan interview he said that he thinks too many smart minds are wasted in law and finance. I agree with this, however, coming from a sociopath this would make me very nervous to be a Tesla shareholder. He has made it clear that he thinks he is above the law, and he apparently has no apprehension about breaking the law. He is making it clear that investors (such as Warren Buffett) exist to be exploited for Elon's personal interests (which are disguised as public interest). If you listen to the Rogan interview and hear Musk talk about neuralink and still think he is a genius, I don't think you can be helped. Not long or short, just enjoying the show. You have been biased against TSLA for a long time, maybe you should've bought Tesla instead of GM stock. Isn't three years of having been wrong about Tesla long enough for you. Hope your fossil fuel KMI position is treating you well. I would say I am biased against the stock, not the company. I honestly feel sorry for Elon Musk at this point. There are a lot of stocks I should have bought besides GM. I was fortunate to get out at essentially a break even (not counting dividends and option premiums). As for KMI; if I had to put 100% of my net worth in either Tesla or Kinder Morgan its a no-brainer. It's Tesla all day (just kidding). Tesla may not be in my wheelhouse, so I'll keep my mouth shut. Some of the techno-babble things the Elon says to try to sound intelligent happen to be in my wheelhouse. I know an imposter when I see one. Hope you are enjoying your coal car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jalebijim Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 On Elon's recent Joe Rogan interview he said that he thinks too many smart minds are wasted in law and finance. I agree with this, however, coming from a sociopath this would make me very nervous to be a Tesla shareholder. He has made it clear that he thinks he is above the law, and he apparently has no apprehension about breaking the law. He is making it clear that investors (such as Warren Buffett) exist to be exploited for Elon's personal interests (which are disguised as public interest). If you listen to the Rogan interview and hear Musk talk about neuralink and still think he is a genius, I don't think you can be helped. Not long or short, just enjoying the show. You have been biased against TSLA for a long time, maybe you should've bought Tesla instead of GM stock. Isn't three years of having been wrong about Tesla long enough for you. Hope your fossil fuel KMI position is treating you well. Hope you are enjoying your coal car. Having worked in the power industry you should've been able to put this loop together, but since you haven't let me do it for you. Solar panels/Solar roof energy------->Tesla the power wall---------->Tesla car(eventually no coal, oil or NG). Try to focus more on your own cognitive errors. Why did you think Amazon stock was at a peak three years ago? Why you waste your time bashing a company that's trying to change transportation in a positive way? Why you choose to buy GM stock? Maybe your mind is fooling you about reality just like it was deluding you about the about the above stock opinions. There is always a nonzero chance..... Trying to debug your own cognitive errors will be a lot more productive use of your time than feeling "sorry" for a billionaire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jschembs Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 Is there a way to mute a specific user? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pauly Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 Is there a way to mute a specific user? Ya this thread is straying into Reddit/Zerohedge territory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurgis Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 Is there a way to mute a specific user? Profile -> Modify Profile -> Buddies/Ignore List -> Edit Ignore List Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jschembs Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 Is there a way to mute a specific user? Profile -> Modify Profile -> Buddies/Ignore List -> Edit Ignore List Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsad Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 On Elon's recent Joe Rogan interview he said that he thinks too many smart minds are wasted in law and finance. I agree with this, however, coming from a sociopath this would make me very nervous to be a Tesla shareholder. He has made it clear that he thinks he is above the law, and he apparently has no apprehension about breaking the law. He is making it clear that investors (such as Warren Buffett) exist to be exploited for Elon's personal interests (which are disguised as public interest). If you listen to the Rogan interview and hear Musk talk about neuralink and still think he is a genius, I don't think you can be helped. Not long or short, just enjoying the show. You have been biased against TSLA for a long time, maybe you should've bought Tesla instead of GM stock. Isn't three years of having been wrong about Tesla long enough for you. Hope your fossil fuel KMI position is treating you well. Hope you are enjoying your coal car. Having worked in the power industry you should've been able to put this loop together, but since you haven't let me do it for you. Solar panels/Solar roof energy------->Tesla the power wall---------->Tesla car(eventually no coal, oil or NG). Try to focus more on your own cognitive errors. Why did you think Amazon stock was at a peak three years ago? Why you waste your time bashing a company that's trying to change transportation in a positive way? Why you choose to buy GM stock? Maybe your mind is fooling you about reality just like it was deluding you about the about the above stock opinions. There is always a nonzero chance..... Trying to debug your own cognitive errors will be a lot more productive use of your time than feeling "sorry" for a billionaire. Hi All, Please try and not make it "personal". Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thowed Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 Please try and not make it "personal". Cheers! +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jalebijim Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 Giga Berlin is coming along nicely and on schedule, nice current footage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberty Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 Hope you are enjoying your coal car. Coal is getting ever smaller as a part of the US power grid, and in many other places it is inexistent (where I am, for example is, 100% hydro): Even running on 100% coal, an EV isn't that far from a gasoline car when it comes to CO2, because ICEs are so inefficient compared to electric motors (70-80% of the energy in a gallon of gasoline is wasted as heat). When it comes to smog forming emissions, it's a bit more complex; power plants tend to be much farther away from population centers and people's lungs than tailpipes. But EVs are mostly charged as night from baseload or excess wind power and don't contribute much to peak during the day and don't make coal plants run more than they would otherwise at those times, so any additional load will go to peakers which aren't coal. Since most place only run partially on coal, the EV is much better than a gasoline car, and over time it gets better as the grid is cleaned up, while the gasoline car gets worse as wear and tear tends to make it less efficient. In fact, EVs can help the grid handle more renewables because they can act as a distributed battery that can store cheap (sometimes even negatively priced) excess renewables on very sunny/windy days. Basically, what you're saying it just a slogan, and like most slogans, it doesn't tell the whole stories and is more misleading than elucidating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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