TSLA - Tesla Motors

[Guest jalebijim]

Wow! This is brutal. I will sell all of my TSLA holdings like I sold all my AAPL when the Apple Maps fiasco happened and when antennagate happened! How come, I expected perfection in the first roll out and massive ramp up in Model Y. Thanks and best regards.

 

 

https://electrek.co/2020/06/16/tesla-model-y-quality-issues/

 

We covered the Model 3 launch closely and it certainly wasn’t without quality issues, but it was nothing like the reports I am seeing for Model Y these days.

 

Wasn’t Tesla supposed to learn from the Model 3 ramp? It’s a brave new world when you’re happy buying a 50k car with that kind of quality issues.

 

Besides, it’s a lot more costly for Tesla to fix these quality issues after producing the car then to take a couple of months extra in developing the car and tweaking the production process so that the quality is acceptable.

 

 

Tesla car software operating system IP alone not even counting full self driving is worth more than 7 billion dollars! Where does that show up on the balance sheet?

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/volkswagen-software-operatingsystem/vw-in-talks-with-rivals-on-making-operating-system-for-car-of-the-future-idUSL8N2DW27C

 

 

Volkswagen board member Thomas Ulbrich said in March that U.S. electric car manufacturer Tesla has a 10-year start on rivals when it comes to building electric cars and software.

 

In January, Volkswagen launched Car.Software, an independent unit responsible for developing lines of code, with around 3,000 digital experts and a budget of more than 7 billion euros ($7.8 billion). By 2025 it wants to have more than 10,000 software experts.

 

 

[Mark Jr.]

Is this a worthwhile way to live a life? Is Elon really such a villain to these people? Wtf did he do to them?

 

Maybe ask some of the friends or family of anybody killed by a Tesla on autopilot.

 

I’ve seen some pretty crazy threads here of pure hype stocks that somehow found a thread on what is supposed to be a value investing board, but this one takes the cake.

[Guest jalebijim]

Is this a worthwhile way to live a life? Is Elon really such a villain to these people? Wtf did he do to them?

 

Maybe ask some of the friends or family of anybody killed by a Tesla on autopilot.

 

I’ve seen some pretty crazy threads here of pure hype stocks that somehow found a thread on what is supposed to be a value investing board, but this one takes the cake.

 

 

https://horseaddict.net/2017/05/04/100-deaths-per-year/

 

People who owned horses when the combustion engine was coming said similar things.

 

Over 100 deaths per year are estimated to result from equestrian related activities, with 10-20 times as many head injuries occurring for each fatality.

 

Should we ban horse riding?

[A Dhandho Investor]

Don't know what you are trying to say?

 

CATL is Tesla's battery supplier for the model 3 and is also providing its products to competitors of Tesla.

 

It is not as if this is some kind of exclusive relationship that Tesla has with CATL, so there is no battery cost advantage.

 

The product that they are referring to "capable of powering a vehicle for 1.2 million miles" will be available for Tesla as well as for Tesla competitors.

 

A few things... A battery alone isn't an EV, so unless you have a good product to compete, it doesn't do much. You have to be good at A LOT of things to make a good EV.

 

Second, using someone's supplier (Panasonic, etc) doesn't mean you get everything they get. Apple uses Foxconn, but they have exclusive use of a lot of machinery (that they paidf for) and IP that other users of Foxconn don't get. Others won't make their batteries at the Tesla Gigafactory, and won't have Tesla's volumes (at least for the foreseeable future), and may not get the exact chemistries (Panasonic may make them, but there's very likely a bunch of Tesla IP in the chemistries and in the pack design (which matters too, not just the cells), depending...

 

It can be similar to how Apple's SoCs are ARM, but they're not the same at all as other ARM SoC's made by Qualcomm, and getting an ARM SoC doesn't mean you get Apple's cost and performance.

 

So some press release about number of miles means very little unless you have a product for sale in large numbers and you can see the actual performance and price. Wake me up when some new EVs go for sale in large numbers and they're price and performance competitive. I'd love to see that, because I'm a big fan of the electrification of transportation.

 

Yeah, won't argue with the fact that the product that CATL supplies to Tesla will be not 100% the same as the one it will supply to competitors, but don't you believe that Tesla has actually helped lowering the battery cost for the entire industry at the expense of its own profitability? I don't think that being the first mover in the industry has been so advantageous for Tesla if you look at its profitability.

 

 

Is this a worthwhile way to live a life? Is Elon really such a villain to these people? Wtf did he do to them?

 

Maybe ask some of the friends or family of anybody killed by a Tesla on autopilot.

 

I’ve seen some pretty crazy threads here of pure hype stocks that somehow found a thread on what is supposed to be a value investing board, but this one takes the cake.

 

From my side asking whether Elon Musk is a villain is equivalent to asking whether the Wirecard CEO is a villain. 

 

There's a certain playing field in the financial markets and it is frustrating to see that some people seem to be getting away with breaking the rules. It's a whole bunch of actors that are enabling this fraud to continue: the BoD, the auditors, analysts, the SEC. The fact that Jay Clayton of all people got promoted to become the top prosecuter for the SDNY to cover up whatever Trump asks from him tells enough about the quality of the oversight of the SEC.

[Liberty]

Is this a worthwhile way to live a life? Is Elon really such a villain to these people? Wtf did he do to them?

 

Maybe ask some of the friends or family of anybody killed by a Tesla on autopilot.

 

I’ve seen some pretty crazy threads here of pure hype stocks that somehow found a thread on what is supposed to be a value investing board, but this one takes the cake.

 

Also lots of people have avoided accidents and been saved (by both passive and active autopilot features). Unfair to focus on one side without the other. Lots of people have also died because of design decisions by other automakers, or been saved by good decisions, but Tesla gets 1000x the attention, kind of like Apple gets all kinds of "gate" scandals because of minor things while Samsung actually had exploding phones and that made less waves...

[Dalal.Holdings]

Is this a worthwhile way to live a life? Is Elon really such a villain to these people? Wtf did he do to them?

 

Maybe ask some of the friends or family of anybody killed by a Tesla on autopilot.

 

I’ve seen some pretty crazy threads here of pure hype stocks that somehow found a thread on what is supposed to be a value investing board, but this one takes the cake.

 

Also lots of people have avoided accidents and been saved (by both passive and active autopilot features). Unfair to focus on one side without the other. Lots of people have also died because of design decisions by other automakers, or been saved by good decisions, but Tesla gets 1000x the attention, kind of like Apple gets all kinds of "gate" scandals because of minor things while Samsung actually had exploding phones and that made less waves...

 

Many more people have been killed by faults with Boeing, GM, Ford products. Can you say 737 Max? Ford Pinto? GM ignition switch recall?

 

Tesla is the focus for some reason tho...maybe this person should question whether they have a bias when it comes to this name. Very hard to avoid for people when discussing Musk/Tesla.

 

Is it the same when an unknowing passenger boards a 737 Max and dies in a crash as someone who is driving a car and not paying attention gets in a crash when Tesla autopilot is engaged (a system that warns the user to pay attention and we have in one report someone who crashed while playing a cell phone game)? Both situations are tragic for the person/family, but I think there is a distinction as far as how much responsibility the company has.

 

Do cell phone makers like Apple have a responsibility when a person crashes and dies while texting and driving?

 

These are not Saas or Software companies so there will always be nonzero risks. The Apollo program had risks and killed astronauts. So did the Space Shuttle. As a society we’ve become more risk averse, ceding some of these industries and ventures to places like China...

 

I am glad someone like Musk exists and the world is better off. My view on the stock here is agnostic though and probably leaning with Elon as “too high, IMO”.

[Liberty]

I don't mean to minimize problems with autopilot, and do think Tesla has been aggressive with it. But it's always a lot easier to see what actually happened than what didn't, and I get the feeling that Teslas are generally some of the safest cars on the road (extremely high crash ratings, lots of active measures to avoid accidents), and that in general, it's a big net positive for safety to drive a Tesla rather than almost any alternative (especially since a lot of Tesla drivers didn't drive luxury vehicles before, so didn't have all the safety gear of that segment).

 

It's kind of like how you don't see the impacts when the FDA doesn't approve a drug or an area of research vs what you see if a bad drug gets approved and there's problems with it. Yet a death is a death.. This skews incentives and can lead to overall worse outcomes than with a more even-handed and rational look at the pros and cons.

[patience_and_focus]

I don't mean to minimize problems with autopilot, and do think Tesla has been aggressive with it. But it's always a lot easier to see what actually happened than what didn't, and I get the feeling that Teslas are generally some of the safest cars on the road (extremely high crash ratings, lots of active measures to avoid accidents), and that in general, it's a big net positive for safety to drive a Tesla rather than almost any alternative (especially since a lot of Tesla drivers didn't drive luxury vehicles before, so didn't have all the safety gear of that segment).

 

It's kind of like how you don't see the impacts when the FDA doesn't approve a drug or an area of research vs what you see if a bad drug gets approved and there's problems with it. Yet a death is a death.. This skews incentives and can lead to overall worse outcomes than with a more even-handed and rational look at the pros and cons.

 

Can't speak for car industry but the above statement about new drug approval and its impact is not accurate. The point of clinical trial is to show superiority over existing standard of care. STandard of care in overwhelming circumstances is the best option / treatment course available at the time. So the new kid (drug) has to show better outcome in a statistically significant way (better safety & equivalent effectiveness to treat the disease or better in both). This by definition means that if the new drug is not superior then its approval and eventual use will lead to more deaths than standard of care.

 

Last time I checked there is no such process to "approve" the next car. And I am not arguing that there should be such a process for the car industry, just pointing out that comparison to healthcare industry is not appropriate.

[Dalal.Holdings]

I don't mean to minimize problems with autopilot, and do think Tesla has been aggressive with it. But it's always a lot easier to see what actually happened than what didn't, and I get the feeling that Teslas are generally some of the safest cars on the road (extremely high crash ratings, lots of active measures to avoid accidents), and that in general, it's a big net positive for safety to drive a Tesla rather than almost any alternative (especially since a lot of Tesla drivers didn't drive luxury vehicles before, so didn't have all the safety gear of that segment).

 

It's kind of like how you don't see the impacts when the FDA doesn't approve a drug or an area of research vs what you see if a bad drug gets approved and there's problems with it. Yet a death is a death.. This skews incentives and can lead to overall worse outcomes than with a more even-handed and rational look at the pros and cons.

 

In general there is a problem where prevention of harm is not something often praised or respected—vaccines (the greatest inventions of modern medicine), mask wearing, Tesla’s safety ratings, etc. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, but few people appreciate that.

 

This mentality will make the adoption of autonomous driving difficult as people/media focus on the few crashes that occur instead of all the crashes that were avoided (prevented) due to the tech.

 

There are few people who walk around saying—“Thank heavens for the smallpox vaccine, I may not have lived to adulthood without it” even though it’s true...the benefits are at the society level but at the individual level it’s very hard to appreciate...

[Guest jalebijim]

 

I am glad someone like Musk exists and the world is better off. My view on the stock here is agnostic though and probably leaning with Elon as “too high, IMO”.

 

 

 

Agree, short term a lot of positive news is priced into the stock. What really concerns me about Tesla short term is the Nikola valuation, larger than Ford :o with no real product. There might be a lot of funny money in this space right now.

 

I heavily trimmed my trading position today. Knowing my luck TSLA will probably double by next week. :)

 

 

[Liberty]

I don't mean to minimize problems with autopilot, and do think Tesla has been aggressive with it. But it's always a lot easier to see what actually happened than what didn't, and I get the feeling that Teslas are generally some of the safest cars on the road (extremely high crash ratings, lots of active measures to avoid accidents), and that in general, it's a big net positive for safety to drive a Tesla rather than almost any alternative (especially since a lot of Tesla drivers didn't drive luxury vehicles before, so didn't have all the safety gear of that segment).

 

It's kind of like how you don't see the impacts when the FDA doesn't approve a drug or an area of research vs what you see if a bad drug gets approved and there's problems with it. Yet a death is a death.. This skews incentives and can lead to overall worse outcomes than with a more even-handed and rational look at the pros and cons.

 

Can't speak for car industry but the above statement about new drug approval and its impact is not accurate. The point of clinical trial is to show superiority over existing standard of care. STandard of care in overwhelming circumstances is the best option / treatment course available at the time. So the new kid (drug) has to show better outcome in a statistically significant way (better safety & equivalent effectiveness to treat the disease or better in both). This by definition means that if the new drug is not superior then its approval and eventual use will lead to more deaths than standard of care.

 

Last time I checked there is no such process to "approve" the next car. And I am not arguing that there should be such a process for the car industry, just pointing out that comparison to healthcare industry is not appropriate.

 

We're not talking about the same thing. There's a lot of drugs that will never be created because, for example, regulatory bodies will decide that "aging is not a disease" or that a new use for an existing molecule requires years and millions of dollars worth of paperwork and it's not worth it for a disease that isn't common or in a country where people are poor. The standard doesn't seem to be very flexible and to look at the balance of risks and benefits, it's more about avoiding risks at all costs because there's a lot of career risk in there for regulators, and this leads to people not getting medications that they may otherwise get in a more rational system. Same for psychedelics like psilocybin, known for decades to be safe and to potentially have life-altering benefits to people with PTSD, depression, addiction, but we're now just getting around to loosening restrictions.. How many people could've been helped over the past 50 years if this hadn't been banned by people who wanted to win some political points and cover their asses because they saw no upside to their own careers in taking a chance on it? Incentive aren't aligned between the people making a lot of these decisions and the sick people who may benefit. Not all the time, but a lot of the time.

[Liberty]

In general there is a problem where prevention of harm is not something often praised or respected—vaccines (the greatest inventions of modern medicine), mask wearing, Tesla’s safety ratings, etc. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, but few people appreciate that.

 

This mentality will make the adoption of autonomous driving difficult as people/media focus on the few crashes that occur instead of all the crashes that were avoided (prevented) due to the tech.

 

There are few people who walk around saying—“Thank heavens for the smallpox vaccine, I may not have lived to adulthood without it” even though it’s true...the benefits are at the society level but at the individual level it’s very hard to appreciate...

 

Sins of omission never get as much press as sins of commission...

[A Dhandho Investor]

In general there is a problem where prevention of harm is not something often praised or respected—vaccines (the greatest inventions of modern medicine), mask wearing, Tesla’s safety ratings, etc. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, but few people appreciate that.

 

This mentality will make the adoption of autonomous driving difficult as people/media focus on the few crashes that occur instead of all the crashes that were avoided (prevented) due to the tech.

 

There are few people who walk around saying—“Thank heavens for the smallpox vaccine, I may not have lived to adulthood without it” even though it’s true...the benefits are at the society level but at the individual level it’s very hard to appreciate...

 

Sins of omission never get as much press as sins of commission...

 

As far as I know, Tesla's safety ratings are related to the car crash ratings, not to autopilot.

 

If we put everyone in a pick-up truck tomorrow, I'm 100% sure that car crash fatality will also be lower then it is today.

 

In terms of car crash avoidance, I don't believe that Tesla's systems are any better than the ones used by its competitors. Or do you guys have any data that suggests otherwise?

 

I can only repeat that in terms of autonomous driving, the competition in the space is miles ahead on Tesla.

edit: you don't have to believe me, you can listen to Josh Wolfe on this one: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-25-josh-wolfe/id1491394342?i=1000474266825

[JRM]

Why are we still calling it autopilot?  Why not call it advanced cruise control, or advanced lane assist?  Autopilot is to Tesla what broadband and video on demand were to Enron in 2000.

[Mark Jr.]

Tesla knew the S3 batteries had a design flaw that caused leaks and fires, but went ahead and sold them anyway:

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-faulty-battery-cooling-systems-design-model-s-2012-2019-6

 

Brings to mind the famous Ford Pinto cost/benefit analysis that showed they'd save money paying out the victims of rear-end collision fatalities than to fix the assembly production.

 

 

[A Dhandho Investor]

Tesla knew the S3 batteries had a design flaw that caused leaks and fires, but went ahead and sold them anyway:

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-faulty-battery-cooling-systems-design-model-s-2012-2019-6

 

Brings to mind the famous Ford Pinto cost/benefit analysis that showed they'd save money paying out the victims of rear-end collision fatalities than to fix the assembly production.

 

Yeah, one gentle suggestion for all the Tesla or Elon Musk fans still in this thread: please read this blog post after reading the business insider article: https://www.tesla.com/blog/model-s-fire?

 

The nationwide driving statistics make this very clear: there are 150,000 car fires per year according to the National Fire Protection Association, and Americans drive about 3 trillion miles per year according to the Department of Transportation. That equates to 1 vehicle fire for every 20 million miles driven, compared to 1 fire in over 100 million miles for Tesla. This means you are 5 times more likely to experience a fire in a conventional gasoline car than a Tesla!

 

For consumers concerned about fire risk, there should be absolutely zero doubt that it is safer to power a car with a battery than a large tank of highly flammable liquid.

 

Elon Musk is the king of gaslighting and his fans believe every word coming out of his mouth.

[Liberty]

In general there is a problem where prevention of harm is not something often praised or respected—vaccines (the greatest inventions of modern medicine), mask wearing, Tesla’s safety ratings, etc. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, but few people appreciate that.

 

This mentality will make the adoption of autonomous driving difficult as people/media focus on the few crashes that occur instead of all the crashes that were avoided (prevented) due to the tech.

 

There are few people who walk around saying—“Thank heavens for the smallpox vaccine, I may not have lived to adulthood without it” even though it’s true...the benefits are at the society level but at the individual level it’s very hard to appreciate...

 

Sins of omission never get as much press as sins of commission...

 

As far as I know, Tesla's safety ratings are related to the car crash ratings, not to autopilot.

 

If we put everyone in a pick-up truck tomorrow, I'm 100% sure that car crash fatality will also be lower then it is today.

 

In terms of car crash avoidance, I don't believe that Tesla's systems are any better than the ones used by its competitors. Or do you guys have any data that suggests otherwise?

 

I can only repeat that in terms of autonomous driving, the competition in the space is miles ahead on Tesla.

edit: you don't have to believe me, you can listen to Josh Wolfe on this one: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-25-josh-wolfe/id1491394342?i=1000474266825

 

Josh Wolfe is great, we follow each other on Twitter and I’ve only had good conversations with him, but he's been talking about shorting Tesla for about 4-5 years and is investing into a self-driving startup that competes, so maybe not unbiased.

 

As for the rest, yes, I think their cars are generally safer than most others (esp at that volume) because of their safety profile as a whole, which includes passive and active. EVs have better crumple zones because there's not a big heavy engine sitting between you and most impacts, a lower centers of gravity, more instant reaction to traction control and active safety/avoidance measures, more sensors (cameras, ultrasonics, radars), have higher mass per size class (because of the battery), etc. I also would bet that Tesla has better software engineers than traditional car makers -- it's harder to attract top AI/ML talent to GM than to Tesla...

[Dalal.Holdings]

Oh boy, TSLAQers at it again trying to scare people about Tesla fires...bias much? And digging up some stuff from 2012...lol, detective work.

 

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/06/03/500-gas-car-fires-per-day-can-we-please-get-serious-about-electric-car-battery-fires/

 

According to a recent FEMA report, “from 2014 to 2016 an estimated 171,500 highway vehicle fires occurred in the United States, resulting in an annual average of 345 deaths; 1,300 injuries; and $1.1 billion in property loss. These highway vehicle fires accounted for 13 percent of fires responded to by fire departments across the nation.”

 

Guess which fires make the news? The handful of Tesla ones, not the >150 of regular car fires that happen in the U.S. every single day. Apparently driving with a tank of combustible liquid under you is safer per the law of physics in TSLAQ land than a battery pack...

 

And apparently Model 3 achieving the lowest NHTSA probability of injury of any vehicle ever tested is irrelevant because we need to focus on "major killers" like car fires or distracted drivers using autopilot, not good old fashioned car crashes which are among the top killers of all causes in the U.S...

 

https://www.tesla.com/blog/model-3-lowest-probability-injury-any-vehicle-ever-tested-nhtsa

 

https://money.cnn.com/2018/05/17/news/companies/electric-car-fire-risk/index.html

 

"A battery powered vehicle having a fire incident is newsworthy. A gasoline powered vehicle having a fire is newsworthy only if it stops traffic," said Steven Risser, senior research leader at Battelle, a nonprofit research and development firm, and one of the leading experts on the risk of fires in electric vehicles.

 

But hey, when you get all your info from twitter feeds, podcasts, and blogs that have the same view as you on a stock/company and inability to sift signal from noise, don't be surprised when your analysis is deeply flawed. Garbage in, garbage out: TSLAQ for ya!

[Guest jalebijim]

Every time the stock market is down a little the liars/Teslaqs come out, when the market is up and Tesla stock doing well they go hide in their caves.

 

They have been wrong about the cars for 10 years and the stock for 700 points now but never fail to bring up some random esoteric financial metric Tesla is not meeting.

 

 

From 2012 – 2019, there has been approximately one Tesla vehicle fire for every 175 million miles traveled. By comparison, data from the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) and U.S. Department of Transportation shows that in the United States there is a vehicle fire for every 19 million miles traveled.

 

In order to provide an apt comparison to NFPA data, Tesla’s data set includes instances of vehicle fires caused by structure fires, arson, and other things unrelated to the vehicle, which account for some of the Tesla vehicle fires over this time period.

[Guest jalebijim]

Model 3 achieves the lowest probability of injury of any vehicle ever tested by NHTSA

 

https://www.tesla.com/blog/model-3-lowest-probability-injury-any-vehicle-ever-tested-nhtsa

[A Dhandho Investor]

@Dalal: you should become a politician. The point in case is that there was a design flaw in the Model S that could lead to breakdowns and fires that Tesla willingly let pass by. What a normal car company would do is address this issue, not point at how many car fires occur on an annual basis in the US.

 

@Jalebijim. You do know that with your post you just proved my point that you take Tesla's word for granted? Who says that the statistic that you quote that there has been one Tesla vehicle fire for every 175 million miles traveled is correct?

 

https://www.revealnews.org/article/tesla-says-its-factory-is-safer-but-it-left-injuries-off-the-books/

 

Do you know whether they included this car fire that they covered up in their statistics? https://electrek.co/2018/12/16/tesla-fire-bullet-battery/#:~:text=According%20to%20the%20lawsuit%2C%20Tesla,day%20and%20start%20their%20investigation.&text=%E2%80%9CTesla%20has%20determined%20that%20the,inside%20the%20Vehicle's%20passenger%20cabin.%E2%80%9D

 

According to the lawsuit, Tesla sent engineers to take possession of the car the same day and start their investigation.

 

Within 5 days of the incident, Tesla quickly offered a deal to Schneider to keep quiet about his Model S catching on fire and in return, they offered to take care of his loan and quickly get him a new car with a free extended warranty.

[Guest jalebijim]

https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.dot.gov/files/documents/12848-lithiumionsafetyhybrids_101217-v3-tag.pdf

 

 

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration sponsored a study on the questions of electric vehicles and fires in 2017, which concluded that "the propensity and severity of fires and explosions from the accidental ignition of flammable electrolytic solvents used in lithium-ion battery systems are anticipated to be somewhat comparable to or perhaps slightly less than those for gasoline or diesel vehicular fuels."

 

Battery technology has improved a lot since then, so it is even less now.

 

 

[Guest jalebijim]

Elon started a space rocket company that put men into orbit.

Shorts and Dhando: Did you see the fuel cost spreadsheet he said it costs $400k in oxygen but we know it costs $500k. Elon is a fraud!

 

Elon is a fraud, we should be paying the Russians $4 billion and not having home grown rocket company.

 

Those men never really went into orbit, it was done via CGI. Elon is a fraud!

 

 

Elon sells 400000 cars starting from zero and investing his own money.

Shorts and Dhando: He said he would sell 500000. Elon is a fraud!

 

 

 

[A Dhandho Investor]

https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.dot.gov/files/documents/12848-lithiumionsafetyhybrids_101217-v3-tag.pdf

 

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration sponsored a study on the questions of electric vehicles and fires in 2017, which concluded that "the propensity and severity of fires and explosions from the accidental ignition of flammable electrolytic solvents used in lithium-ion battery systems are anticipated to be somewhat comparable to or perhaps slightly less than those for gasoline or diesel vehicular fuels."

 

Battery technology has improved a lot since then, so it is even less now.

 

I only browsed through the study you referred to because it just seems a technical document that investigates potential battery safety issues, that is not even related to Tesla and does not take into account what actually happens on the road with battery powered vehicles. Hell, it doesn't even mention anything on potential battery design flaws, like the one with the Model S that Tesla refused to correct. 

 

With respect to your other post: you can make fun of me as much as you want, but there is enough factual information that indicates that Tesla is knowingly misleading the general public and its investors. It seems that you just don't want to see it. Again a reminder that Elon Musk literally went on a hollywood stage with a fake product in order to convince Tesla shareholders to vote for the Solarcity bailout.

 

Who will you blame when this goes down like Wirecard?

- the BoD that turned a blind eye because it was paid very handsomely for sitting on its hands?

- the auditors that didn't ask the correct questions? (the accounts receivable issue is still not resolved - and I would advise them to take a good look at the bank confirmations that confirm the cash balance)

- the CFO that was recruited internally because Tesla doesn't want to bring in any external people within the finance department?

- Elon his Twitter sitter? (does anybody know if he still has one?)

- the SEC?

- the FBI? (there have been numerous whistleblower cases that have been without consequences until now)

 

Yes it can take 5 more years for this to unravel, but sooner or later this train will hit a wall.

[Guest jalebijim]

 

Only browsed through the study you referred to because it just seems a technical document that investigates potential battery safety issues, that is not even related to Tesla and does not take into account what actually happens on the road with battery powered vehicles. Hell, it doesn't even mention anything on potential battery design flaws, like the one with the Model S that Tesla refused to correct. 

 

 

Battery fires? NHTSA was asked to investigate Lion car batteries----->Biggest electric car maker Tesla = Battery safety in the study above

 

Study was in large part related to possible Tesla fire reports, so it applies directly to Tesla.

 

 

 

 

Who will you blame when this goes down like Wirecard?

 

 

 

No one, myself. We are all adults here. Who do you blame for all the money you lost shorting the stock? Are you mad at Elon because you picked a bad short and lost money?

 

 

 

 

 

- Elon his Twitter sitter? (does anybody know if he still has one?)

 

 

I am a shareholder and I don't want a twitter sitter for him. Love getting updates from my CEO. More should do that.

 

 

 

 

 

Yes it can take 5 more years for this to unravel, but sooner or later this train will hit a wall.

 

 

Maybe in 5 years Tesla will be a trillion dollar company.