TSLA - Tesla Motors

[JRM]

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/banned-youtube-devastating-video-details-teslas-full-self-driving-claims-versus-reality

[KFS]

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/banned-youtube-devastating-video-details-teslas-full-self-driving-claims-versus-reality

 

Wow!  The fanboy crowd reaction to this should be fun to watch.....  It's about time someone made a video like this, honestly. 

 

I'm baffled on why YouTube or other platforms would think they need to ban it....  Of course, ironically, any attempts to ban the video might only increase the ultimate attention and publicity it gets.....

[rkbabang]

I'm baffled on why YouTube or other platforms would think they need to ban it....  Of course, ironically, any attempts to ban the video might only increase the ultimate attention and publicity it gets.....

 

The Streisand Effect

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect

 

[fareastwarriors]

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/banned-youtube-devastating-video-details-teslas-full-self-driving-claims-versus-reality

 

Wow!  The fanboy crowd reaction to this should be fun to watch.....  It's about time someone made a video like this, honestly. 

 

I'm baffled on why YouTube or other platforms would think they need to ban it....  Of course, ironically, any attempts to ban the video might only increase the ultimate attention and publicity it gets.....

 

Musk's twitter did say to use #Elongate if there was ever a scandal.

[Ice77]

This is one of the weirder stocks obviously. The bulls on this are a cult as are the bears. Listened to a podcast series recently where literally every second one over a period of two years was about TSLA as a short.

[rkbabang]

This is one of the weirder stocks obviously. The bulls on this are a cult as are the bears. Listened to a podcast series recently where literally every second one over a period of two years was about TSLA as a short.

 

Exactly. The video above ends with (paraphrased) "Musk isn't' a genius or scientist, he's a con-man"

 

He does overpromise a lot, especially on timelines, but he isn't a con-artist.  It's like you have to think he's a god-genius or an evil villain scam artist, there is no in-between.

 

[changegonnacome]

Its a polarizing stock for sure - I haven't seen a CEO in my time (of a large cap stock) ever been quite as aggressive in 'selling' timelines & capabilities to the market/its customers - and those moments of innovation theatre have been judiciously timed around equity raises.

 

How the FTC still allows a driver assistance system to be sold to the public with the name "FULL SELF DRIVING" & "AUTOPILOT" is beyond me...........all the more crazy when you realize this misrepresentation of capability is associated with a 6,000 pound hunk of metal & chemicals traveling at 70mph on a highway near you and your loved ones!

 

Adam Neuman, Elizabeth Holmes & Elon Musk........I do look at that trio and see the same thing......albeit Elon IMO has reached escape velocity from planet bullshit. God speed, you black emperor (to steal a Canadian band name)

[hyten1]

i don't think con artist is quite the other end of the spectrum from god/genius

 

con artist are everywhere pretty common, god/genius on the other hand are quite rare

 

h

 

This is one of the weirder stocks obviously. The bulls on this are a cult as are the bears. Listened to a podcast series recently where literally every second one over a period of two years was about TSLA as a short.

 

Exactly. The video above ends with (paraphrased) "Musk isn't' a genius or scientist, he's a con-man"

 

He does overpromise a lot, especially on timelines, but he isn't a con-artist.  It's like you have to think he's a god-genius or an evil villain scam artist, there is no in-between.

[hyten1]

its pretty easy, when the official statement is your tech is a level 2 and yet you are out there promoting its almost a level 5 for years, i think it is pretty obvious what you are doing.

 

i can understand if your tech is level 4 and you are almost there ... so close, I get that. But level 2?! sayings its almost level 5 (you haven't even done/achieve level 3,4 yet)

 

now either the person is

 

1) delusional/crazy

2) liar

3) stuplid?

4) visionary just over promises  :)

 

you know a person can be "both" a visionary and a "con artist" its not mutually exclusive (call it what it is)

 

 

if #4 is your pick, then I have a super AI jarvis I like to sell you, it can almost do what a person can do

 

 

 

 

 

 

[formthirteen]

Musk's playbook exposed:

 

British science fiction writer Arthur C. Clarke formulated three adages that are known as Clarke's three laws, of which the third law is the best known and most widely cited. They are part of his ideas in his extensive writings about the future.[1] These so-called laws are:

 

    1. When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.

    2. The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.

    3. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarke%27s_three_laws

 

The SEC and customers see magic. I can see through Musk's bullshit and I know the self-driving AI is a fraud, but I also know that he might be right in the end. Reflexivity...

[hyten1]

I don’t agree self driving AI is a fraud (we will have self driving ai, one day)

 

I do believe fsd is almost level 5 is a scam

 

I don’t think people doubt we will have self driving cars ... eventually ... sure musk believe av will be with us one day, so does many other folks, this is not some revelation that no one else has thought of

 

This reminds me of theranos

 

 

 

 

 

 

Musk's playbook exposed:

 

British science fiction writer Arthur C. Clarke formulated three adages that are known as Clarke's three laws, of which the third law is the best known and most widely cited. They are part of his ideas in his extensive writings about the future.[1] These so-called laws are:

 

    1. When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.

    2. The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.

    3. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarke%27s_three_laws

 

The SEC and customers see magic. I can see through Musk's bullshit and I know the self-driving AI is a fraud, but I also know that he might be right in the end. Reflexivity...

[formthirteen]

I meant to say that Tesla's current version is a fraud, so I think we agree ;)

 

I don’t agree self driving AI is a fraud (we will have self driving ai, one day)

[changegonnacome]

Forget the Level 5 software update bullshit & whether Tesla can crack the problem sans lidar using only vision.

 

The reality is right in front of every Tesla owners face who's had to clean their backup camera...............that level 5 autonomy & robotaxis are an impossible dream based on their current cars.......WHY........Teslas have 8 cameras for vision FIVE of which DONT self-clean......if you want to see cognitive dissonance unfold in real time see here https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/how-do-tesla-cameras-self-clean.105500/

 

Now imagine your Tesla robotaxi kindly sends you a push notification as it glides over to the edge of the highway........"Dear Passenger, Please exit the vehicle and clean the left hand side camera located behind the passenger door to continue your ride. Please watch for traffic in performing this operation. Alternatively please wait for Tesla service engineer to come to your location if you are not comfortable cleaning this yourself and continuing your ride"

[rkbabang]

i don't think con artist is quite the other end of the spectrum from god/genius

 

con artist are everywhere pretty common, god/genius on the other hand are quite rare

 

Con-artists that become among the richest men on the planet are far rarer than geniuses.

 

[hyten1]

 

Like I said it’s not mutually exclusive, you can be both a visionary (done great things) and at the same time commit fraud and be a con artist

 

 

i don't think con artist is quite the other end of the spectrum from god/genius

 

con artist are everywhere pretty common, god/genius on the other hand are quite rare

 

Con-artists that become among the richest men on the planet are far rarer than geniuses.

[TwoCitiesCapital]

 

Like I said it’s not mutually exclusive, you can be both a visionary (done great things) and at the same time commit fraud and be a con artist

 

 

i don't think con artist is quite the other end of the spectrum from god/genius

 

con artist are everywhere pretty common, god/genius on the other hand are quite rare

 

Con-artists that become among the richest men on the planet are far rarer than geniuses.

 

Agreed. Tesla makes great cars. Elon probably IS borderline genius given his success in various unrelated ventures.

 

He's also shady AF and has zero regard for governance that is needed to operate in public capital markets with other people's money. It wouldn't shock me if he was ever found to be guilty of something criminal just because he's come so close publicly (taking Tesla private tweet, taking his cousins' "bankrupt" solar company private with Tesla shareholder cash, etc.)

 

He can continue to make great cars, travel to space, and dig holes. I'm just not going to trust him with my money so that he can do it.

[Ice77]

Elon's con is a prop of lies, deceit and borderline illegal stuff to buy him enough time and capital so that he can innovate (fail fast) out of whatever crazy goal he's set himself upto. It's a form of reflexive value creation. That he's a genius or borderline genius should not be up for debate - as Marc Andreessen puts it where are the other Elons if it's that easy? (the only one who has come close to doing it at that scale in multiple endeavours is Jack at Square & Twitter and even there the degree of difficulty was nowhere near as crazy as faced by SpaceX and Tesla). The con is just a means to an end for him. You can have a con artist with a con or a visionary genius with a con. Both can use con as a prop or tool but one has much loftier, admirable goals. We can fault the method but his goals are important for humanity. 

[KFS]

 

https://jalopnik.com/tesla-owners-take-to-reddit-asking-what-happens-if-full-1846553907

 

What Happens If 'Full Self Driving' Isn't Real

 

 

[JRM]

I think everyone needs to watch that video.  It is obviously biased.  You could make a video of the FSD mode working miraculously just as easily.

 

The videos of people crawling in the back seat to take a nap are the primary reason why this technology shouldn't be beta tested on the general public.  I'm driving on the same roads as these morons.  They have about the same level of intelligence as people I know who have put 100% of their 401k into Tesla.

[KFS]

I think everyone needs to watch that video.  It is obviously biased.  You could make a video of the FSD mode working miraculously just as easily.

 

The videos of people crawling in the back seat to take a nap are the primary reason why this technology shouldn't be beta tested on the general public.  I'm driving on the same roads as these morons.  They have about the same level of intelligence as people I know who have put 100% of their 401k into Tesla.

 

At the 10 minute mark of the video, it goes into the emails sent (December 2020) from Tesla legal to the DMV which state that Tesla's final, full release of FSD to the general public customer fleet will be functionally unchanged and will remain a Level 2 advanced driver assistance feature.

 

I am not a lawyer but I find this amazing.  Customers have paid thousands of dollars for something they were promised years ago, and they are still waiting.  What happens when upset customers decide to file a class-action lawsuit against Tesla?  Why wouldn't the FSD presales constitute a contractual obligation for the features that had been promised?  Why would Tesla not be on the hook with a breach of contract for refunds, legal penalties, etc?  As CEO of the company (oops, I mean technoking), Elon's public comments and promises do carry legal weight, yes? 

 

It is difficult to think of a similar/comparable situation with any other company, probably because Tesla has had a unique opportunity with its mob of faithful followers.  Up to now, it seems the Tesla-cult has quickly shamed anyone who doubts the company as "not true believers" and just keep patiently waiting for results which seem to... somehow... always... be... just around the corner...  What happens when the faithful followers begin to feel like they are the suckers? 

 

This is an honest discussion and worth reading as food for thought, IMO:

 

[KFS]

I'm just bookmarking this video here so that one year from now I can review and reflect.  I do like to follow some of the Tesla perma-bulls just to keep a pulse on the crowd.  Either I'm completely crazy or this guy is.  We can't both be sane.  If it turns out I'm the bats**t crazy one, then OK fine, I will voluntarily check myself into a psychiatric hospital and seek help. 

 

ARK Invest Tesla Stock Valuation Model (DEEP DIVE)

[hasilp89]

I'm just bookmarking this video here so that one year from now I can review and reflect.  I do like to follow some of the Tesla perma-bulls just to keep a pulse on the crowd.  Either I'm completely crazy or this guy is.  We can't both be sane.  If it turns out I'm the bats**t crazy one, then OK fine, I will voluntarily check myself into a psychiatric hospital and seek help. 

 

ARK Invest Tesla Stock Valuation Model (DEEP DIVE)

 

I didn’t watch as it’s 20 mins I’ll never get back but have been reading Mr. Bloomstran’s stellar critique of it on Twitter. ARK’s model appears to be the definition of garbage in garbage out. I’ve never had dog in the fight and I understand what ARK does is not illegal, but I’d say it is immoral and it is sad to watch people fall for it.

 

So yes you are sane (or we are both insane)...

[KFS]

I'm just bookmarking this video here so that one year from now I can review and reflect.  I do like to follow some of the Tesla perma-bulls just to keep a pulse on the crowd.  Either I'm completely crazy or this guy is.  We can't both be sane.  If it turns out I'm the bats**t crazy one, then OK fine, I will voluntarily check myself into a psychiatric hospital and seek help. 

 

ARK Invest Tesla Stock Valuation Model (DEEP DIVE)

 

I didn’t watch as it’s 20 mins I’ll never get back but have been reading Mr. Bloomstran’s stellar critique of it on Twitter. ARK’s model appears to be the definition of garbage in garbage out. I’ve never had dog in the fight and I understand what ARK does is not illegal, but I’d say it is immoral and it is sad to watch people fall for it.

 

So yes you are sane (or we are both insane)...

 

Yes, Bloomstran has been on a roll lately. 

[EdWatchesBoxing]

I am going through those latest tweets from Bloomstran now :)

[fareastwarriors]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-volkswagen-tesla-china-exclusive/exclusive-volkswagen-to-buy-credits-from-tesla-in-china-to-comply-with-environmental-rules-sources-idUKKBN2BO542

 Tesla had $1.58 billion of revenue from credits in 2020. 

 

 Stellantis (Fiat), Honda, and now Volkswagen are still buying credits. It would be interesting to see how this line of revenue hold up in 2021.  This high margin Revenue looks like it might not disappear as fast as some investors think/hope.