TSLA - Tesla Motors

[Castanza]

One risk to Tesla is that all their cars look alike. The S and X are declining in their production, and they are the ones with unique designs. Literally no differentiation between any 3 other that color. The Y looks like a 3 on dubs. I can't imagine this works to their advantage over the long term.

 

10 years ago they sold hundreds of cars a year of one model based on a Lotus, give them a little time to build a line up. Tesla is usually accused of moving too fast, not too slowly..

 

But all BMWs look like BMWs, all Porsches look like Porsches. If what you have is desirable, it's not too much of a problem.  If you have more commodity products, then it helps to try to make a zillion variations and try to see what sticks or what may fills a niche. Same for iPhones vs Android phones.

 

No offense but you still haven't pointed out this "moat" that exists. If Tesla look like Tesla and BMWs look like BMWs then one can only conclude that NIOs will look like NIOs. I fail to see how that's a moat as it's completely subjective to the buyer. Are you really arguing that Tesla found some secret sauce in looks? I mean I guess it's possible.....Apple defends their position party due to aesthetics. But when looking at a Tesla they really aren't all that special looking inside and out. When it comes to things like the Cyber truck, I will be willing to bet the Electric F150 outsells it because it looks like a traditional truck. I know a lot of blue collar workers who are excited about the eF150 and also think the Cyber Truck looks god awful. I hope Tesla changes that design up a lot.

[Jurgis]

Tesla moat is presumably autopilot and (not yet existing) full self-driving.

 

These are the only features that would make me choose Tesla instead of other E or not-E car.

[Liberty]

One risk to Tesla is that all their cars look alike. The S and X are declining in their production, and they are the ones with unique designs. Literally no differentiation between any 3 other that color. The Y looks like a 3 on dubs. I can't imagine this works to their advantage over the long term.

 

10 years ago they sold hundreds of cars a year of one model based on a Lotus, give them a little time to build a line up. Tesla is usually accused of moving too fast, not too slowly..

 

But all BMWs look like BMWs, all Porsches look like Porsches. If what you have is desirable, it's not too much of a problem.  If you have more commodity products, then it helps to try to make a zillion variations and try to see what sticks or what may fills a niche. Same for iPhones vs Android phones.

 

No offense but you still haven't pointed out this "moat" that exists. If Tesla look like Tesla and BMWs look like BMWs then one can only conclude that NIOs will look like NIOs. I fail to see how that's a moat as it's completely subjective to the buyer. Are you really arguing that Tesla found some secret sauce in looks? I mean I guess it's possible.....Apple defends their position party due to aesthetics. But when looking at a Tesla they really aren't all that special looking inside and out. When it comes to things like the Cyber truck, I will be willing to bet the Electric F150 outsells it because it looks like a traditional truck. I know a lot of blue collar workers who are excited about the eF150 and also think the Cyber Truck looks god awful. I hope Tesla changes that design up a lot.

 

I don't know if they have a moat. But they're better and faster than the competition right now, and are much better at software and fast iteration, so until I see someone catching up, they're in a good position to keep their brand premium and stand out from the crowd.

 

I don't think success for Tesla means outselling everybody else and owning the car market. Musk himself would be quite happy if everybody else sold a ton of EVs. I think they can probably carve out a successful niche and do quite well at it.

 

Apple's moat is software and culture, not aesthetics.

[Castanza]

One risk to Tesla is that all their cars look alike. The S and X are declining in their production, and they are the ones with unique designs. Literally no differentiation between any 3 other that color. The Y looks like a 3 on dubs. I can't imagine this works to their advantage over the long term.

 

10 years ago they sold hundreds of cars a year of one model based on a Lotus, give them a little time to build a line up. Tesla is usually accused of moving too fast, not too slowly..

 

But all BMWs look like BMWs, all Porsches look like Porsches. If what you have is desirable, it's not too much of a problem.  If you have more commodity products, then it helps to try to make a zillion variations and try to see what sticks or what may fills a niche. Same for iPhones vs Android phones.

 

No offense but you still haven't pointed out this "moat" that exists. If Tesla look like Tesla and BMWs look like BMWs then one can only conclude that NIOs will look like NIOs. I fail to see how that's a moat as it's completely subjective to the buyer. Are you really arguing that Tesla found some secret sauce in looks? I mean I guess it's possible.....Apple defends their position party due to aesthetics. But when looking at a Tesla they really aren't all that special looking inside and out. When it comes to things like the Cyber truck, I will be willing to bet the Electric F150 outsells it because it looks like a traditional truck. I know a lot of blue collar workers who are excited about the eF150 and also think the Cyber Truck looks god awful. I hope Tesla changes that design up a lot.

 

I don't know if they have a moat. But they're better and faster than the competition right now, and are much better at software and fast iteration, so until I see someone catching up, they're in a good position to keep their brand premium and stand out from the crowd.

 

I don't think success for Tesla means outselling everybody else and owning the car market. Musk himself would be quite happy if everybody else sold a ton of EVs. I think they can probably carve out a successful niche and do quite well at it.

 

Apple's moat is software and culture, not aesthetics.

 

Well you suggested they do have a moat because you said “people are missing all of the unquantifiable things that customers want”. What are those things?

 

And Apple absolutely can attribute part of their most to aesthetics. Jobs harped on appearance and not just being another “white box”. That was something he refused to leave out of the Apple equation.

 

[Liberty]

Well you suggested they do have a moat because you said “people are missing all of the unquantifiable things that customers want”. What are those things?

 

No, that's not what I said. Things that aren't on a spec sheet aren't necessarily a moat.

 

And Apple absolutely can attribute part of their most to aesthetics. Jobs harped on appearance and not just being another “white box”. That was something he refused to leave out of the Apple equation.

 

Better aesthetics are an output of the moat, not the cause. The design and product-focused culture which is an extension of the Jobs DNA that the company was founded (and re-founded after NeXT reverse-takeover) is part of that moat and manifests through all levels of organisation of the company, and the other is the software layer, which has network effects and is a very high-barrier to entry (how many companies can create and maintain OSes and dev platforms that are differentiated and high quality and secure? There's only a few companies.. it's why Nokia and RIM never had a chance against the iPhone, because it wasn't a phone, it was a computer and OS+APIs, etc).

[A Dhandho Investor]

I don't know if they have a moat. But they're better and faster than the competition right now, and are much better at software and fast iteration, so until I see someone catching up, they're in a good position to keep their brand premium and stand out from the crowd.

 

I don't think success for Tesla means outselling everybody else and owning the car market. Musk himself would be quite happy if everybody else sold a ton of EVs. I think they can probably carve out a successful niche and do quite well at it.

 

I hope you don't mind that I chime in, but could you elaborate on the part in bold? I don't understand what you mean with "they're better and faster than the competition right now". It's also unclear what you mean with "they are much better at software and fast iteration". I think it is a lot of fluff but nothing very tangible.

 

As you could have guessed, I don't think they have a moat at all. imo the brand premium is a result of the fact that they are the first mover in the space combined with the fact that they have built an EV from the ground up in combination with the Musk aura. People that bought a Tesla when there was no major competition have experienced the advantages that an electric car has over an ICE car (like the the instant torque) and attribute those features to the fact that "it is a Tesla" rather than the fact that it is an EV.

 

With the risk of repeating myself: take a look at the best selling EV's in a country like Norway, where EV's have 60% + market share (via https://eu-evs.com/). In 2020, the Model 3 is only the 5th best selling car after the E-Tron, the VW Golf, the Hyundai Kona and the Nissan Leaf.

 

Also this: how many people are actually interested in the software behind a car? I guess it's < 5%. Most people are still just interested in getting from point A to point B. Here also you can find for instance someone who prefers the Polestar 2 over the Model 3: https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-model-vs-3-polestar-2-ev-electric-vehicle-comparison-2020-9?r=US&IR=T (Yes, I know that others would prefer the Model 3, but it shows that it is really a personal choice)

 

Some other potential explanations for the Tesla moat:

- the supercharger network: other OEM's are combining forces to build out charging networks and infrastructure, so I don't really see it's advantage

- range: Tesla's in general offer extra range compared to the competition, which is definitely an advantage. Having a 400 mile range versus only a 350 mile range will definitely entice people to buy a Tesla, but I can't imagine that for most people range would be the number 1 priority  / reason to buy a car .

- Autopilot / FSD: I'm probably biased here, but imo Tesla is the perceived leader because they are willing to cut corners, while other OEMs their nr 1 priority is driver safety. How is it for instance possible that you see Youtube videos of cars on Autopilot with the driver sitting in the passenger seat, while Tesla requires its drivers to be able to take the steering wheel at all time? Other OEMs would add a feature to the car that you can't drive with no one sitting in the driver seat (e.g. via a weight sensor in the driver seat). Tesla doesn't do that.

 

Btw: Tesla's volume growth in Q3 is nice, but it is funny that they don't want to provide a split in sales for their different models. The main reason I see that they don't do that is because it would show the cannibalization of their own models. It is clear that the Model 3 has been cannibalizing Model S sales and I would imagine that Model Y is now cannibalizing Model 3 sales.

 

I've also seen additional price cuts: Model Y has seen a $3k price cut just 4 months after its launch and the China made model 3 also got a price cut. Will be interesting to see how the ASP's have moved this quarter. Luckily, Tesla now has enough cash in the bank to continue losing money on each car they sell, so I guess that volumes will continue to grow over the foreseeable future as long as they can continue lowering prices.

[aryadhana]

Tesla also has a pretty amazing brand and is able to sell cars without any advertising.  Legacy automakers may be able to compete with that, and niche names selling extremely expensive cars like Lucid may not need to.  Other than that, I have a hard time seeing how new EV companies like BYD and Nio will be able to compete in America since they can't compete on price or performance.

 

How are these not comparable? I would argue both Lucid and NIO are more luxurious than Tesla as well.

 

NIO ES6

Price: 52k starting

Range: 379m

0-60mph: 4.7s

 

Tesla X

Price: 80k starting

Range: 351m

0-60mph: 2.6s

 

__________________________

 

Lucid Air

Price: 80k starting

Range: 517m

0-60: 2.5s

 

Tesla S

Price: 74k starting

Range: 402m

0-60: 2.3s

 

__________________________

 

Li Auto also looks interesting (https://www.lixiang.com/)

 

Sorry for not responding earlier.  I would also include MY in the comparison which is sold in the US for $43,000 or so after credits.  The ES6 I believe has a starting range closer to 260 miles compared to MY's 316.  I agree that Lucid seems like a great car and good branding that is its to lose, but the right comparison would be with a Model S Plaid.  I think it's a question of manufacturing scale: if and when Nio can sell in the US at a scale threatening Tesla, Tesla will be in a position to further cut costs and reach a much larger market

[rkbabang]

Tesla also has a pretty amazing brand and is able to sell cars without any advertising.  Legacy automakers may be able to compete with that, and niche names selling extremely expensive cars like Lucid may not need to.  Other than that, I have a hard time seeing how new EV companies like BYD and Nio will be able to compete in America since they can't compete on price or performance.

 

How are these not comparable? I would argue both Lucid and NIO are more luxurious than Tesla as well.

 

NIO ES6

Price: 52k starting

Range: 379m

0-60mph: 4.7s

 

Tesla X

Price: 80k starting

Range: 351m

0-60mph: 2.6s

 

__________________________

 

Lucid Air

Price: 80k starting

Range: 517m

0-60: 2.5s

 

Tesla S

Price: 74k starting

Range: 402m

0-60: 2.3s

 

__________________________

 

Li Auto also looks interesting (https://www.lixiang.com/)

 

Sorry for not responding earlier.  I would also include MY in the comparison which is sold in the US for $43,000 or so after credits.  The ES6 I believe has a starting range closer to 260 miles compared to MY's 316.  I agree that Lucid seems like a great car and good branding that is its to lose, but the right comparison would be with a Model S Plaid.  I think it's a question of manufacturing scale: if and when Nio can sell in the US at a scale threatening Tesla, Tesla will be in a position to further cut costs and reach a much larger market

 

Do NIO and Lucid have manufacturing capabilities?  Are these products that can be produced and sold yet? Are people buying these right now and driving them?  I see Teslas everywhere, I've never seen one of those.  Designing a product is hard, actually building it at scale is even harder.  I'll say the same thing I've been saying for years, I'll believe the theory that Tesla has competitors when I see it.  So far I haven't.  I do however think it will eventually have competition and that it will come from new companies (maybe Nio and Lucid?), but few, if any, traditional car companies will make the transition until it is too late. 

 

 

[Castanza]

Tesla also has a pretty amazing brand and is able to sell cars without any advertising.  Legacy automakers may be able to compete with that, and niche names selling extremely expensive cars like Lucid may not need to.  Other than that, I have a hard time seeing how new EV companies like BYD and Nio will be able to compete in America since they can't compete on price or performance.

 

How are these not comparable? I would argue both Lucid and NIO are more luxurious than Tesla as well.

 

NIO ES6

Price: 52k starting

Range: 379m

0-60mph: 4.7s

 

Tesla X

Price: 80k starting

Range: 351m

0-60mph: 2.6s

 

__________________________

 

Lucid Air

Price: 80k starting

Range: 517m

0-60: 2.5s

 

Tesla S

Price: 74k starting

Range: 402m

0-60: 2.3s

 

__________________________

 

Li Auto also looks interesting (https://www.lixiang.com/)

 

Sorry for not responding earlier.  I would also include MY in the comparison which is sold in the US for $43,000 or so after credits.  The ES6 I believe has a starting range closer to 260 miles compared to MY's 316.  I agree that Lucid seems like a great car and good branding that is its to lose, but the right comparison would be with a Model S Plaid.  I think it's a question of manufacturing scale: if and when Nio can sell in the US at a scale threatening Tesla, Tesla will be in a position to further cut costs and reach a much larger market

 

Do NIO and Lucid have manufacturing capabilities?  Are these products that can be produced and sold yet? Are people buying these right now and driving them?  I see Teslas everywhere, I've never seen one of those.  Designing a product is hard, actually building it at scale is even harder.  I'll say the same thing I've been saying for years, I'll believe the theory that Tesla has competitors when I see it.  So far I haven't.  I do however think it will eventually have competition and that it will come from new companies (maybe Nio and Lucid?), but few, if any, traditional car companies will make the transition until it is too late.

 

NIO has been ramping up production in China and they are selling well. They are looking to enter the EU market soon.

 

Lucid has a manufacturing fascility and the latest I've heard on them is they are looking to pump out cars come 2021.

[RadMan24]

Tesla also has a pretty amazing brand and is able to sell cars without any advertising.  Legacy automakers may be able to compete with that, and niche names selling extremely expensive cars like Lucid may not need to.  Other than that, I have a hard time seeing how new EV companies like BYD and Nio will be able to compete in America since they can't compete on price or performance.

 

How are these not comparable? I would argue both Lucid and NIO are more luxurious than Tesla as well.

 

NIO ES6

Price: 52k starting

Range: 379m

0-60mph: 4.7s

 

Tesla X

Price: 80k starting

Range: 351m

0-60mph: 2.6s

 

__________________________

 

Lucid Air

Price: 80k starting

Range: 517m

0-60: 2.5s

 

Tesla S

Price: 74k starting

Range: 402m

0-60: 2.3s

 

__________________________

 

Li Auto also looks interesting (https://www.lixiang.com/)

 

Sorry for not responding earlier.  I would also include MY in the comparison which is sold in the US for $43,000 or so after credits.  The ES6 I believe has a starting range closer to 260 miles compared to MY's 316.  I agree that Lucid seems like a great car and good branding that is its to lose, but the right comparison would be with a Model S Plaid.  I think it's a question of manufacturing scale: if and when Nio can sell in the US at a scale threatening Tesla, Tesla will be in a position to further cut costs and reach a much larger market

 

Do NIO and Lucid have manufacturing capabilities?  Are these products that can be produced and sold yet? Are people buying these right now and driving them?  I see Teslas everywhere, I've never seen one of those.  Designing a product is hard, actually building it at scale is even harder.  I'll say the same thing I've been saying for years, I'll believe the theory that Tesla has competitors when I see it.  So far I haven't.  I do however think it will eventually have competition and that it will come from new companies (maybe Nio and Lucid?), but few, if any, traditional car companies will make the transition until it is too late.

 

BYD is out producing and competing against Tesla.  And what's with this saying traditional car companies won't make the transition? Like, it's not that difficult to license third party battery technology like Tesla does.

 

Further, how does BYD not compete with Tesla when they produce EVs with more range than Tesla in China at the same price point?

[alpha]

 

Do NIO and Lucid have manufacturing capabilities?  Are these products that can be produced and sold yet? Are people buying these right now and driving them?  I see Teslas everywhere, I've never seen one of those.  Designing a product is hard, actually building it at scale is even harder.  I'll say the same thing I've been saying for years, I'll believe the theory that Tesla has competitors when I see it.  So far I haven't.  I do however think it will eventually have competition and that it will come from new companies (maybe Nio and Lucid?), but few, if any, traditional car companies will make the transition until it is too late.

 

Didn't VW's new electric car outsell Tesla in the European markets last month?

[Jurgis]

Please don't read this post.

 

 

 

 

You've been warned.

 

 

 

I just realized that my butt impression on an office chair looks exactly like Tesla logo.

 

 

 

 

Here.

 

 

 

If you did not listen to me, now you have to live with this in your mind for the rest of your life.

 

(Unless Sanjeev deletes this post for pubic safety).

[rkbabang]

I've heard of reading the tea leaves, but never the butt impressions in office chairs.  Hey, everyone's got a different methodology.  Whatever works.

[Spekulatius]

I don't know if they have a moat. But they're better and faster than the competition right now, and are much better at software and fast iteration, so until I see someone catching up, they're in a good position to keep their brand premium and stand out from the crowd.

 

I don't think success for Tesla means outselling everybody else and owning the car market. Musk himself would be quite happy if everybody else sold a ton of EVs. I think they can probably carve out a successful niche and do quite well at it.

 

I hope you don't mind that I chime in, but could you elaborate on the part in bold? I don't understand what you mean with "they're better and faster than the competition right now". It's also unclear what you mean with "they are much better at software and fast iteration". I think it is a lot of fluff but nothing very tangible.

 

As you could have guessed, I don't think they have a moat at all. imo the brand premium is a result of the fact that they are the first mover in the space combined with the fact that they have built an EV from the ground up in combination with the Musk aura. People that bought a Tesla when there was no major competition have experienced the advantages that an electric car has over an ICE car (like the the instant torque) and attribute those features to the fact that "it is a Tesla" rather than the fact that it is an EV.

 

With the risk of repeating myself: take a look at the best selling EV's in a country like Norway, where EV's have 60% + market share (via https://eu-evs.com/). In 2020, the Model 3 is only the 5th best selling car after the E-Tron, the VW Golf, the Hyundai Kona and the Nissan Leaf.

 

Also this: how many people are actually interested in the software behind a car? I guess it's < 5%. Most people are still just interested in getting from point A to point B. Here also you can find for instance someone who prefers the Polestar 2 over the Model 3: https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-model-vs-3-polestar-2-ev-electric-vehicle-comparison-2020-9?r=US&IR=T (Yes, I know that others would prefer the Model 3, but it shows that it is really a personal choice)

 

Some other potential explanations for the Tesla moat:

- the supercharger network: other OEM's are combining forces to build out charging networks and infrastructure, so I don't really see it's advantage

- range: Tesla's in general offer extra range compared to the competition, which is definitely an advantage. Having a 400 mile range versus only a 350 mile range will definitely entice people to buy a Tesla, but I can't imagine that for most people range would be the number 1 priority  / reason to buy a car .

- Autopilot / FSD: I'm probably biased here, but imo Tesla is the perceived leader because they are willing to cut corners, while other OEMs their nr 1 priority is driver safety. How is it for instance possible that you see Youtube videos of cars on Autopilot with the driver sitting in the passenger seat, while Tesla requires its drivers to be able to take the steering wheel at all time? Other OEMs would add a feature to the car that you can't drive with no one sitting in the driver seat (e.g. via a weight sensor in the driver seat). Tesla doesn't do that.

 

Btw: Tesla's volume growth in Q3 is nice, but it is funny that they don't want to provide a split in sales for their different models. The main reason I see that they don't do that is because it would show the cannibalization of their own models. It is clear that the Model 3 has been cannibalizing Model S sales and I would imagine that Model Y is now cannibalizing Model 3 sales.

 

I've also seen additional price cuts: Model Y has seen a $3k price cut just 4 months after its launch and the China made model 3 also got a price cut. Will be interesting to see how the ASP's have moved this quarter. Luckily, Tesla now has enough cash in the bank to continue losing money on each car they sell, so I guess that volumes will continue to grow over the foreseeable future as long as they can continue lowering prices.

 

Tesla’s Autopilot still seems to be the best in terms of the car driving itself according to several sources I can find, but isn’t necessarily the safest Because it doesn’t check if the driver is paying attention. So that’s why driver in Tesla sometimes yolo around in their cars leading to some of those nasty accidents that are well documented:

https://insideevs.com/news/446766/tesla-autopilot-euro-ncap-assisted-driving-tests/

 

Software is becoming  way more Important and certainly with semi autonomous driving slowly becoming mainstream, it will be even more so in the future. People may not care how it works, but they certainly care what it can do.

[fareastwarriors]

Tesla has a shot at producing 500,000 cars this year, Musk says in memo

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-production/tesla-has-a-shot-at-producing-500000-cars-this-year-musk-says-in-memo-idUSKBN26S2TN

[arcube]

Confirmed. Blowout quarter. Crushed most of the estimates.

 

Tesla has a shot at producing 500,000 cars this year, Musk says in memo

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-production/tesla-has-a-shot-at-producing-500000-cars-this-year-musk-says-in-memo-idUSKBN26S2TN

[A Dhandho Investor]

Hmmmm.  No 10 post response !

The tesla bears have been silenced ?

 

Funny that a post "the tesla bears have been silenced?" comes from a guy who calls BYD "a story stock".

 

From my side: like already mentioned by people like Liberty - it isn't worth the brain damage anymore. Even with all the accounting shenanigans they do (show me another business that only has $6m in interest income on $14.5b in cash?) it is trading over 1000 * TTM earnings and bulls call this "a blow out quarter".

 

Ow yeah, anybody already looked at the evolution of TTM automotive revenue less regulatory credits per diluted share over the last 6 quarters?

 

 

[A Dhandho Investor]

Tesla China recalls 30.000 Model S and X cars made between 2013 and 2017 due to front suspension flaws. https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-recall-model-s-model-x-china-suspension-electric-vehicles-2020-10?r=US&IR=T

 

For anyone who has been following Tesla closely - this isn't a new thing. Just look op "Tesla whompy wheels" on google and you will find out what the story is about:

- Here's a GoFundMe that was started by someone with some evidence: https://www.gofundme.com/f/help-keef-spill-the-beans-on-whompy-wheels

- Here's an article where Tesla didn't acknowledge that the issue exists: https://www.businessinsider.com/aladdin-stars-problem-with-tesla-known-as-whompy-wheels-2019-6?r=US&IR=T

 

A Tesla spokesperson contradicted Massoud's account, saying that the car's "wheel was torn off because the driver crashed into a tree at high speed."

 

edit: ow yeah, forgot that the God himself made a blog post on the issue: https://www.tesla.com/nl_BE/blog/grain-of-salt?redirect=no

 

First, there is no safety defect with the suspensions in either the Model S or Model X. Since we own all of our service centers, we are aware of every incident that happens with our customer cars and we are aware of every part that gets replaced. Whenever there is even a potential issue with one of those parts, we investigate fully. This, combined with extensive durability testing, gives us high confidence in our suspensions. With respect to the car that is discussed in the blog post that led to yesterday’s news (more on the blog post below), the suspension ball joint experienced very abnormal rust. We haven’t seen this on any other car, suggesting a very unusual use case. The car had over 70,000 miles on it and its owner lives down such a long dirt road that it required two tow trucks to retrieve the car. (One to get the car to the highway and one to get it from the highway to the service center.) When we got the car, it was caked in dirt.

 

Why would you believe one forward looking statement from a person that is willfully and knowingly lying about the present and the past? Also wondering what kind of psychological disorder you have when you willfully risk people's lives for your own benefit?

 

Elon his blog post was a response to this article btw: https://dailykanban.com/2016/06/08/tesla-suspension-breakage-not-crime-coverup/

 

[Liberty]

Oh no, a 30,000 car recall!

 

https://www.cars.com/articles/the-10-biggest-recalls-in-2019-416480/

[lnofeisone]

Oh no, a 30,000 car recall!

 

https://www.cars.com/articles/the-10-biggest-recalls-in-2019-416480/

 

Doesn't 30k recall represent nearly 100% of the cars they sold in China in that time period? It would only be about 10% for GM's worst recall. Either way, the fix isn't particularly expensive. I'm very curious if this stays contained to China.

[RadMan24]

Oh no, a 30,000 car recall!

 

https://www.cars.com/articles/the-10-biggest-recalls-in-2019-416480/

 

Scared of the truth?

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/23/tesla-recalls-model-s/x-cars-in-china-over-faulty-suspension.html

 

 

[JRM]

https://electrek.co/2020/10/23/tesla-argues-no-defect-suspension-china-forcing-recall/?source=news_body_link

 

"Tesla has not determined that a defect exists in either the Front Suspension Aft Link or the Rear Suspension Upper Link and believes the root cause of the issue is driver abuse, including that driver usage and expectation for damageability is uniquely severe in the China market. If the customer inputs an abuse load (e.g., curb impact, severe pothole strike, etc.), then the parts may be damaged, leading either to immediate failure or delayed failure from the compounding effects of the initial abuse and subsequent load input."

 

Sounds like a lot of people are abusing their $100k cars.

[Gregmal]

https://electrek.co/2020/10/23/tesla-argues-no-defect-suspension-china-forcing-recall/?source=news_body_link

 

"Tesla has not determined that a defect exists in either the Front Suspension Aft Link or the Rear Suspension Upper Link and believes the root cause of the issue is driver abuse, including that driver usage and expectation for damageability is uniquely severe in the China market. If the customer inputs an abuse load (e.g., curb impact, severe pothole strike, etc.), then the parts may be damaged, leading either to immediate failure or delayed failure from the compounding effects of the initial abuse and subsequent load input."

 

Sounds like a lot of people are abusing their $100k cars.

 

Are they attempting to make an "Asians are bad drivers" joke or something? This seems preposterous.

[rkbabang]

https://electrek.co/2020/10/23/tesla-argues-no-defect-suspension-china-forcing-recall/?source=news_body_link

 

"Tesla has not determined that a defect exists in either the Front Suspension Aft Link or the Rear Suspension Upper Link and believes the root cause of the issue is driver abuse, including that driver usage and expectation for damageability is uniquely severe in the China market. If the customer inputs an abuse load (e.g., curb impact, severe pothole strike, etc.), then the parts may be damaged, leading either to immediate failure or delayed failure from the compounding effects of the initial abuse and subsequent load input."

 

Sounds like a lot of people are abusing their $100k cars.

 

You can of course stop hitting curbs, but depending on where you drive, severe potholes might be hard to avoid.

 

Maybe their roads look like this

[JRM]

The highways in Los Angeles are surprisingly shitty for such an affluent area with a perfect climate.  I wouldn't be surprised if roads in some of China's major cities are better than LA.  I also wouldn't be surprised if they were garbage, either.