StubbleJumper Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 I finally blew mine out the door a couple of weeks ago at $750/sh. Interesting that it keeps creeping up. If my memory serves me correctly, at its current price of $780 it's within 5% of adjusted book. If somebody told me a year ago that ELF would be back near book in 2013, I would not have believed him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aberhound Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 Is there any disclosure of the stock holdings held by corporate? Basically they sold Dominion for $1B and increased their investments in securities by $1B with $600M of the $1B invested into US securities. The now have $3B in equities. Dominion had a worsening combined loss ratio so the company de-risked by exchanging Dominion for equities. The track record of the corporate investment returns look very good. Has anyone calculated the return on the investments in securities? My impression of the numbers is that they are very good. The growth in book value is not an accurate record of the investment performance at corporate because of the drag caused by Dominion and the fact that Empire manages its own much bigger investment portfolio and the distortions caused by the controlled entities. Jackman the CEO is only 46 so is this a young jockey stock to hold many years? It looks like he is focused on increasing the corporate equity investment holdings as he has increased it dramatically to $3B. He doesn't brag about his results like Buffett or Prem which I like if I am going to accumulate shares over a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no_free_lunch Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 ELF is currently trading around 2/3 book which looks like the lower end of p/b over the past decade. Seems very reasonable given the TSX is near highs. Anyone have theories on why shares have traded down, is there significant O&G exposure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest notorious546 Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 i just started look at this name. seems like book value has caught up with the premium placed on the shares. looks like about 2/3rds of book value right now. 2.8 billion in market capital and only 465 shares traded today! liquidity is just crazy low. anyone adding or holding here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbarberayr Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 ELF is primary a life insurer now with a big investment portfolio. Many life insurers are trading at substantial discounts to book value, even large ones like MET is at similar p/b. P&C insurers, like they used to have with Domnion insurance, are trading at higher p/b valuations as they are seen as lower risk as their claims are shorter term and do not have the long tail liabilities that the lifeco's have and need to find through (current) low rate long term bonds. But if you want a life insurer and don't mind one that is thinly traded, family controlled with a small dividend, ELF should do well as Canada has an oligarchic life insurance market, is cheap, conservatively run. If you are willing to go to the US, NWLI has similar characteristics, but is cheaper and more consistent earnings. KCLI has a better dividend, but is now trading on the OTC market, so that may make it hard to trade. I think if you buy a company like ELF.TO or NWLI, you will be well rewarded as interest rates normailze and that stock approaches an ever-increasing book value. I think it is more of a question of when, not if and the timeframe will drive your annual return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafetyinNumbers Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 A very important recent development is the purchase of the minority stake in Empire Life at book value. It's important because it now allows E-L Financial to sell Empire Life at a premium like they did for Dominion. One of the reasons for selling Dominion was that it didn't have the scale to compete and the same could be argued for Empire Life. A sale would likely be done at a premium to book thus making the NAV higher than the accounting book value as all of the major Canadian life insurers would compete for the asset. A way to get a clue on what else ELF owns is to look at the holdings of UNC and EVT. Both are closed end funds that ELF manages and has giant stakes in. Actually, buying EVT might be a cheaper way to acquire ELF as EVTs biggest holding is ELF and EVT trades at a big discount to NAV. Long ELf and EVT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbarberayr Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 You could be right about selling Empire Life. Since Hal Jackman got out of the business and the son took over, a lot of things are lining up - the consolidation of Empire Life you mentioned, but also the sale of Dominion and the change in dividend policy in EVT to distribute all dividends, not just a token one. There is not a lot of value in being public for this group of companies as they continue to slowly buy up the outstanding shares reducing the float. They also never come to market to raise capital. Would be cleaner to just run as a family business and not have to deal with 3rd party shareholder and they could get rid of the costs of being public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StubbleJumper Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 So, they sold Dominion and if they sell Empire Life, what's left? Algoma, United and Economic? I don't get it. Makes no sense unless the Jackman family just wants to own passive investments and live a comfortable life from their billions in capital... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbarberayr Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Exactly. And focus on the things you like your charities or whatever you like. Maybe the son has different interests than the father did. Tough to be a mid-sized insurer in Canada these days. You don't have the scale of the big 3, but you don't have the focus and cheapness of the small ones like Lutheran Life for example. Mutual Life, London Life, Canada Life, Standard Life, Zurich Life, etc. are all gone and you are left with Manulife, Great West and Sunlife controlling 80% of the market and then Empire Life trying to still go alone. I was talking to a broker and he likes working with Empire because their prices are good, but tough to compete on price when you are the small guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafetyinNumbers Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Pretty good quarter out of ELF with book value up to $1089 vs the $635 price and a 1000% increase in the dividend to $1.25/quarter from 12.5 cents/quarter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormR Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Pretty good quarter out of ELF with book value up to $1089 vs the $635 price and a 1000% increase in the dividend to $1.25/quarter from 12.5 cents/quarter. That sweet 0.2% yield ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafetyinNumbers Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 0.8% yield! That's a quarterly dividend! Obviously not a meaningful yield but a big change for them in terms of policy as the quarterly dividend has been 12.5c/quarter for at least 20 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormR Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 0.8% yield! That's a quarterly dividend! Obviously not a meaningful yield but a big change for them in terms of policy as the quarterly dividend has been 12.5c/quarter for at least 20 years. Hot damn, that'll teach me to not skim the press release! I'm waiting for the 10-for-1 share split :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Studesy Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Pretty good quarter out of ELF with book value up to $1089 vs the $635 price and a 1000% increase in the dividend to $1.25/quarter from 12.5 cents/quarter. That sweet 0.2% yield ;-) Apparently someone doesn't like the news. I've had limit orders in the $627 range unfilled for the last 2 months.....to my surprise they were filled yesterday! Not that this is a large decline... just seems unusual that this occurred alongside a solid earnings release and div increase....or am I missing something?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KinAlberta Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 Any following ELF lately? A bit of a bump up likely on qrtrly results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest notorious546 Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 Any following ELF lately? A bit of a bump up likely on qrtrly results. I'm still following it. Still overcapitalized and growing book value moderately. Higher interest rates are still good for the company. not sure if there are any catalysts that will narrow the valuation gap or at least easily visible ones. E-L Financial’s net equity value per Common Share was $1,132.28 at September30, 2016, an increase from $1,089.23 as at December31, 2015. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafetyinNumbers Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 The only thing I can think of, is a potential sale of Empire Life and a special dividend like they did after they sold the P&C business. We have seen life insurance valuations go up significantly recently so its potentially easier for one of the big insurers (GWO, SLF or MFC) to buy Empire at a big premium to book. This will of course take the ELF NAV even higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbarberayr Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 EVT, the top company in the Jackman family holdings and owner of a lot of ELF (can't remember exactly) also changed their dividend policy a couple years ago from a flat $0.60 per year to $0.15 per quarter, plus distributing all the dividends of the investments that EVT owns. So, since Duncan Jackman has taken over from Hal, we've seen a significant increase in the activities which uncover shareholder value - the EVT dividend, the sale of P&C division Dominion insurance, and now the increase in dividend at ELF. My hope is that the new management continues these actions and we see an increase in the valuation given to all of these companies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafetyinNumbers Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 Perhaps we will. In my conversations with Duncan, he seems to like the discount to the extent it allows the family to acquire more shares at that big discount. I also think the higher dividends gives them more cash to buy those shares of UNC, EVT and ELF. If they keep buying, theoretically the discount will close over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no_free_lunch Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 E-L Financial’s net equity value per Common Share was $1,132.28 at September30, 2016, an increase from $1,089.23 as at December31, 2015. Notorious, Where did you find this net equity value? I don't see it in the financials and when I calculate it I get a different number. No doubt I am just missing something so any help is appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafetyinNumbers Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 Hopefully Notorious doesn't mind me answering but its on page 4 of the MD&A or page 3 of the financial statements in the highlights. Just make sure you are pulling up E-L Financial and not Empire Life off of Sedar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no_free_lunch Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafetyinNumbers Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Write up on SeekingAlpha http://seekingalpha.com/article/4032732-e-l-financial-trading-nav-potential-value-accretive-catalysts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest notorious546 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 stock was highlighted in the last value investor insight issue FWIW. Q4/16 results out. Shares at 65% of book value while book grew 6% year over year. TORONTO, ONTARIO--(Marketwired - March 3, 2017) - E-L Financial Corporation Limited ("E-L Financial") (TSX:ELF)(TSX:ELF.PR.F)(TSX:ELF.PR.G)(TSX:ELF.PR.H) today reported for the year ended December 31, 2016, consolidated shareholders' net income of $333.1 million or $80.88 per share compared with $534.6 million or $132.18 per share in 2015. For the fourth quarter of 2016, E-L Financial had consolidated net income of $100.1 million or $24.49 per share compared with $207.7 million or $51.90 per share in 2015. E-L Financial's net equity value per Common Share was $1,159.26 at December 31, 2016, an increase from $1,089.23 as at December 31, 2015. "Empire Life continues to deliver strong results with record earnings for 2016 despite challenges associated with the current economic and political environments along with the impact of low interest rates. With a common shareholder return of 13%, Empire Life continues to demonstrate sustained profitable organic growth. Although E-L Financial's investment returns declined from 2015, which were mostly driven by currency movements, the global investment portfolio has had continued momentum through 2016. I am proud to report continued growth in our net equity value to our common shareholders with a total return of 6.8% for 2016," said Duncan Jackman, Chairman, President and CEO of E-L Financial. E-L Corporate For the year ended December 31, 2016, E-L Corporate earned net income of $181.6 million compared to $447.2 million in 2015. The decrease in net income is primarily due to E-L Corporate's net gain on investments of $155.8 million compared to $568.9 million in 2015. E-L Corporate's investments in 2016 yielded a pre-tax total return of 6% mainly due to positive investment returns on global equities which was partially offset by the strengthening of the Canadian dollar against the U.S. dollar and Euro. The net gain on investments in 2015 was mostly attributed to the favourable impact of a lower Canadian dollar. At December 31, 2016, 84.0% (2015 - 85%) of E-L Corporate's investments were denominated in foreign currencies with 49% (2015 - 48%) and 12% (2015 - 14%) exposed to U.S. and European equities respectively. E-L Corporate 2016 fourth quarter net income was $47.9 million, a decrease of $146.8 million compared to 2015. The return on investments for the fourth quarter decreased compared to the prior year primarily due to lower investment returns and the impact of foreign currencies in the fourth quarter of 2015. Empire Life For the year ended December 31, 2016 Empire Life's net income attributable to E-L Financial was $151.5 million compared to $87.4 million for the comparable period in 2015. The increase in net income was due to higher profits from the Individual Insurance product line primarily resulting from improved stock market conditions in 2016, a favourable update of policy liability assumptions and management actions to improve asset/liability matching in 2016. Empire Life's fourth quarter net income attributable to E-L Financial was $52.1 million compared to $13.0 million in 2015. The increase in net income was primarily due to higher profit from the Individual Insurance product line primarily attributable to improved stock market conditions in 2016, a favourable update of policy liability assumptions for the Individual Insurance product line in 2016 (compared to an unfavourable update in 2015) and management actions to improve asset/liability matching in 2016. Empire Life's assets under management (including segregated fund and mutual fund assets) increased 10% over December 31, 2015 levels to reach $16.1 billion. Empire Life's Minimum Continuing Capital and Surplus Requirements ratio increased to 248% at December 31, 2016 compared to 201% at December 31, 2015 resulting from Empire Life's issuance of $149.5 million of preferred shares during the first quarter of 2016 and the issuance of $200 million of subordinated debentures during the fourth quarter of 2016. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest notorious546 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Write up on SeekingAlpha http://seekingalpha.com/article/4032732-e-l-financial-trading-nav-potential-value-accretive-catalysts can you post article can't seem to read/get access to it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now