ERICOPOLY Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Like I said, I already see a lot of solar panels around. I wonder if these people already think it is worth the investment, or if they just want to show off how green they are to their neighbors? There is no investment if you go with Solar City. Just a lower utility bill ;) Perhaps they are value shoppers and you are the one paying more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberty Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Like I said, I already see a lot of solar panels around. I wonder if these people already think it is worth the investment, or if they just want to show off how green they are to their neighbors? There is no investment if you go with Solar City. Just a lower utility bill ;) Perhaps they are value shoppers and you are the one paying more? Eric, have you signed up for SolarCity? I remember you were looking at some alternatives a while ago, but I don't think you mentioned picking anything.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERICOPOLY Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Like I said, I already see a lot of solar panels around. I wonder if these people already think it is worth the investment, or if they just want to show off how green they are to their neighbors? There is no investment if you go with Solar City. Just a lower utility bill ;) Perhaps they are value shoppers and you are the one paying more? Eric, have you signed up for SolarCity? I remember you were looking at some alternatives a while ago, but I don't think you mentioned picking anything.. First, I wanted to put solar panels on the detached garage. I could fit a 10,000 watt system up there (40 250 watt panels). The roof though is "flat". The fire marshall has to sign off on the permit, so I had him out to the house. He wants a 3 foot wide perimeter around the east and north edges of the roof, as well as a 3 foot wide path right down the center of the roof. Suffice it to say, I can only fit a bit less than 1/2 as many panels as I'd like because of him. He's really messing it up. They want to be able to punch holes in the roof to vent it during a fire without walking on solar panels... give me a break... can't I just say "fine, I don't care if you walk on the panels...". So that nixed that idea... or at least I'm not going to come back to the idea quite yet. I couldn't do Solar City because I need to own the house first. I'm still renting with a purchase option. The whole solar lease thing puts a lien on the house -- I can't do that as it violates what the current owner wants. So while it is a sure-fire way to reduce the electric bill with no capital investment, it does require you to be the owner and willing to take on a lien. Not until I own the house first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adesigar Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 You are of course correct. I tend to view everything through a dollars and cents filter, but many people don't. Which is why I have neither solar panels nor a large screen TV (my largest TV is 32", because it does the job and is cheap). I'm sure some people buy solar panels just to feel good themselves about being green. My largest and only TV is 32" too. I guess we're TV brothers :D Only on a value investing board would you find such people, every house I go in besides mine has a monster TV hanging on the wall in every living room. My kids were literately jumping for joy and high-fiving one another when we replaced one of our 2 tube TVs with that 32" HDTV two years ago. We still have the tube TV in the other living room though, I didn't want to get too crazy. That's my experience too. Even the poorest people I know have cable (which we don't have) and a TV larger than 45 inches. We actually bought our 32" as a floor demo with a small scratch on the non-screen part, so we got a discount. It was a good value... I still don't have a flat screen TV, still using an old tube TV. Prices are dropping to the point where I think it's worth it for me to upgrade. My wife really wants one :) What do you guys watch on tube TVs ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkbabang Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 You are of course correct. I tend to view everything through a dollars and cents filter, but many people don't. Which is why I have neither solar panels nor a large screen TV (my largest TV is 32", because it does the job and is cheap). I'm sure some people buy solar panels just to feel good themselves about being green. My largest and only TV is 32" too. I guess we're TV brothers :D Only on a value investing board would you find such people, every house I go in besides mine has a monster TV hanging on the wall in every living room. My kids were literately jumping for joy and high-fiving one another when we replaced one of our 2 tube TVs with that 32" HDTV two years ago. We still have the tube TV in the other living room though, I didn't want to get too crazy. That's my experience too. Even the poorest people I know have cable (which we don't have) and a TV larger than 45 inches. We actually bought our 32" as a floor demo with a small scratch on the non-screen part, so we got a discount. It was a good value... I still don't have a flat screen TV, still using an old tube TV. Prices are dropping to the point where I think it's worth it for me to upgrade. My wife really wants one :) What do you guys watch on tube TVs ? All In The Family re-runs. And everything that anyone else watches. I just watched the latest episode of Boardwalk Empire last night on my tube TV. If I ever replace it (maybe soon) I'm looking at these: http://www.amazon.com/TCL-40FS4610R-40-Inch-1080p-120Hz/dp/B00K7NCS9G/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1410268501&sr=8-1&keywords=tcl+roku For $330 you get a 40" HDTV with the Roku box built in. We have a 1st gen Roku (no HDMI output) on our tube TV and love it. The so-called "Smart-TV" functionality on our VIZEO 32" HDTV sucks completely. So this is like buying a Roku box for $99 and getting a 40" HDTV for $230. I'm seriously considering it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkbabang Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Like I said, I already see a lot of solar panels around. I wonder if these people already think it is worth the investment, or if they just want to show off how green they are to their neighbors? There is no investment if you go with Solar City. Just a lower utility bill ;) Perhaps they are value shoppers and you are the one paying more? Eric, have you signed up for SolarCity? I remember you were looking at some alternatives a while ago, but I don't think you mentioned picking anything.. First, I wanted to put solar panels on the detached garage. I could fit a 10,000 watt system up there (40 250 watt panels). The roof though is "flat". The fire marshall has to sign off on the permit, so I had him out to the house. He wants a 3 foot wide perimeter around the east and north edges of the roof, as well as a 3 foot wide path right down the center of the roof. Suffice it to say, I can only fit a bit less than 1/2 as many panels as I'd like because of him. He's really messing it up. They want to be able to punch holes in the roof to vent it during a fire without walking on solar panels... give me a break... can't I just say "fine, I don't care if you walk on the panels...". So that nixed that idea... or at least I'm not going to come back to the idea quite yet. I couldn't do Solar City because I need to own the house first. I'm still renting with a purchase option. The whole solar lease thing puts a lien on the house -- I can't do that as it violates what the current owner wants. So while it is a sure-fire way to reduce the electric bill with no capital investment, it does require you to be the owner and willing to take on a lien. Not until I own the house first. I do own my house, but I've moved 3 times in the 18 years since I bought my first house. I've never been in any house for more than 8 years. I'm not comfortable with a long term contract and the lien and all of that. I'm going to buy them outright when it makes sense to do so or keep paying 14 cents/kWh for my electricity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberty Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 First, I wanted to put solar panels on the detached garage. I could fit a 10,000 watt system up there (40 250 watt panels). The roof though is "flat". The fire marshall has to sign off on the permit, so I had him out to the house. He wants a 3 foot wide perimeter around the east and north edges of the roof, as well as a 3 foot wide path right down the center of the roof. Suffice it to say, I can only fit a bit less than 1/2 as many panels as I'd like because of him. He's really messing it up. They want to be able to punch holes in the roof to vent it during a fire without walking on solar panels... give me a break... can't I just say "fine, I don't care if you walk on the panels...". So that nixed that idea... or at least I'm not going to come back to the idea quite yet. I couldn't do Solar City because I need to own the house first. I'm still renting with a purchase option. The whole solar lease thing puts a lien on the house -- I can't do that as it violates what the current owner wants. So while it is a sure-fire way to reduce the electric bill with no capital investment, it does require you to be the owner and willing to take on a lien. Not until I own the house first. That's too bad. And it can't work on the main house? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERICOPOLY Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 First, I wanted to put solar panels on the detached garage. I could fit a 10,000 watt system up there (40 250 watt panels). The roof though is "flat". The fire marshall has to sign off on the permit, so I had him out to the house. He wants a 3 foot wide perimeter around the east and north edges of the roof, as well as a 3 foot wide path right down the center of the roof. Suffice it to say, I can only fit a bit less than 1/2 as many panels as I'd like because of him. He's really messing it up. They want to be able to punch holes in the roof to vent it during a fire without walking on solar panels... give me a break... can't I just say "fine, I don't care if you walk on the panels...". So that nixed that idea... or at least I'm not going to come back to the idea quite yet. I couldn't do Solar City because I need to own the house first. I'm still renting with a purchase option. The whole solar lease thing puts a lien on the house -- I can't do that as it violates what the current owner wants. So while it is a sure-fire way to reduce the electric bill with no capital investment, it does require you to be the owner and willing to take on a lien. Not until I own the house first. That's too bad. And it can't work on the main house? We'd rather not have them visible on the house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkbabang Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 We'd rather not have them visible on the house. That's also an issue for me even if it was affordable. Ideally you'd like the front of your house facing north so that the panels would be on the back side facing south, but the front of my house faces almost exactly due south. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberty Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 In the recent SolarCity announcement about the acquisition of a cell maker, Elon Musk mentioned that he wanted to make "cool-looking" solar panels. Maybe he'll chance perception in that industry too :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERICOPOLY Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 In the recent SolarCity announcement about the acquisition of a cell maker, Elon Musk mentioned that he wanted to make "cool-looking" solar panels. Maybe he'll chance perception in that industry too :D I just need a product like this: http://www.solarreviews.com/news/colored-solar-panels-address-concerns-of-aesthetics-historic-preservation/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERICOPOLY Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 I just looked at my electric bill. I pay $0.06383/kWh for "Delivery Charge" and $0.0849/kWh for "Supply Charge" for a total cost of $0.14873/kWh. Okay, so how much pre-tax income does that cost you? Solar panels generate a tax-free imputed income stream. The higher your income tax rate, the cheaper residential solar becomes. Take for example the peak 50% income tax rates in California... and you pay your utility bill with after-tax income... One kWh consumed at noon that costs 49 cents on my utility bill in fact costs me 98 cents in income. The higher and higher you jack up my tax rate, the cheaper and cheaper solar looks compared to coal/gas... Unless I purchase a coal/gas fueled residential electric generator... I'd love to try getting a permit for one of those ::) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkbabang Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 I just looked at my electric bill. I pay $0.06383/kWh for "Delivery Charge" and $0.0849/kWh for "Supply Charge" for a total cost of $0.14873/kWh. Okay, so how much pre-tax income does that cost you? Solar panels generate a tax-free imputed income stream. The higher your income tax rate, the cheaper residential solar becomes. Take for example the peak 50% income tax rates in California... and you pay your utility bill with after-tax income... One kWh consumed at noon that costs 49 cents on my utility bill in fact costs me 98 cents in income. The higher and higher you jack up my tax rate, the cheaper and cheaper solar looks compared to coal/gas... Unless I purchase a coal/gas fueled residential electric generator... I'd love to try getting a permit for one of those ::) I live in NH, no state income tax at all, nor a capital gains tax, so just federal income taxes. Permits? You don't need no stinkin' permits. I'd love a coal generator, especially if it has some automatic way to feed the coal into it, but I don't think you could install one and not have it noticed. Depending on the noise and how close your neighbors are a gas fired generator in your back yard (or maybe in a small well insulated/soundproofed outbuilding with the exhaust vented out), could probably go unnoticed. http://www.kohlergenerators.com/small-business-generators/generators Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkbabang Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 In the recent SolarCity announcement about the acquisition of a cell maker, Elon Musk mentioned that he wanted to make "cool-looking" solar panels. Maybe he'll chance perception in that industry too :D I just need a product like this: http://www.solarreviews.com/news/colored-solar-panels-address-concerns-of-aesthetics-historic-preservation/ Something like this might work for me, if they can get it to look more like roofing shingles. It is still pretty noticeable. http://www.dowpowerhouse.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberty Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 I guess it's a matter of taste, but I don't understand the whole "it has to be unnoticeable" thing. It's not like regular roof shingle are beautiful or anything. What's more boring than a plain roof? To me solar panels have that great sci-fi look that make any house immediately look 21st century and much cooler. But that's just me I guess 8) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkbabang Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 I guess it's a matter of taste, but I don't understand the whole "it has to be unnoticeable" thing. It's not like regular roof shingle are beautiful or anything. What's more boring than a plain roof? To me solar panels have that great sci-fi look that make any house immediately look 21st century and much cooler. But that's just me I guess 8) My house is 246 years old (built in 1768). I don't want a sci-fi roof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberty Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 I guess it's a matter of taste, but I don't understand the whole "it has to be unnoticeable" thing. It's not like regular roof shingle are beautiful or anything. What's more boring than a plain roof? To me solar panels have that great sci-fi look that make any house immediately look 21st century and much cooler. But that's just me I guess 8) My house is 246 years old (built in 1768). I don't want a sci-fi roof. What's more 'heritage' and old-school than the sun? 8) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERICOPOLY Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 I guess it's a matter of taste, but I don't understand the whole "it has to be unnoticeable" thing. It's not like regular roof shingle are beautiful or anything. What's more boring than a plain roof? To me solar panels have that great sci-fi look that make any house immediately look 21st century and much cooler. But that's just me I guess 8) My house is 246 years old (built in 1768). I don't want a sci-fi roof. Mine in 1912. The last year without a Federal income tax. I moved in on the 100 yr anniversary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkbabang Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 The higher and higher you jack up my tax rate, the cheaper and cheaper solar looks compared to coal/gas... Unless I purchase a coal/gas fueled residential electric generator... I'd love to try getting a permit for one of those ::) These fuel cells look interesting: http://www.redoxpowersystems.com/ They claim that they will cost about $1K/kW, so these 25kW models that are coming out soon should be about $25K. I wonder how cheap they are to run and how long they will last. Certainly a lot quieter than a generator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERICOPOLY Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 The higher and higher you jack up my tax rate, the cheaper and cheaper solar looks compared to coal/gas... Unless I purchase a coal/gas fueled residential electric generator... I'd love to try getting a permit for one of those ::) These fuel cells look interesting: http://www.redoxpowersystems.com/ They claim that they will cost about $1K/kW, so these 25kW models that are coming out soon should be about $25K. I wonder how cheap they are to run and how long they will last. Certainly a lot quieter than a generator. Not the right device for me. I never have anything close to a 25kW load. I need a 20 kWh battery pack on my garage wall that is charged by the grid at night between midnight and 6am for 9 cents per kWh, and depleted during the day when it would be offsetting 49 cents per kWh (between 10am and 6pm), and 31 cents per kWh the rest of the hours. This would save me roughly $5,000 annually on my utility bill. The battery would very quickly be paid off (less than 2 years), leaving me with a tax-free imputed income stream for the remaining life of the battery (probably another decade). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffmori7 Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 In the recent SolarCity announcement about the acquisition of a cell maker, Elon Musk mentioned that he wanted to make "cool-looking" solar panels. Maybe he'll chance perception in that industry too :D I just need a product like this: http://www.solarreviews.com/news/colored-solar-panels-address-concerns-of-aesthetics-historic-preservation/ Something like this might work for me, if they can get it to look more like roofing shingles. It is still pretty noticeable. http://www.dowpowerhouse.com/ Another style again, depending on your roof! http://soltechenergy.com/soltech-system/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmallCap Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Elon Musk Just Made It Way Cheaper To Live Off Solar Power http://finance.yahoo.com/news/elon-musk-just-made-way-200019467.html The loan option, called MyPower, is structured like an energy payment, in that the customer pays off the loan by paying their energy bill — and it's a win-win, because these payments can end up being cheaper than your traditional power bill. And after 30 years, the power is free. Here's how it works, according to SolarCity founder and CEO Lyndon Rive: customers take out a 30-year loan on a solar power system at 4.5% interest. SolarCity installs and maintains the system at no cost to the customer, and the customer pays for the power — and in the process, pays off the loan. Typically loans available for homeowners to fit themselves with solar utilities are usually offered by third-party banks and municipalities in partnership with solar companies, and do not take into account how much power is being produced by the system. That means if the system underperforms, the customer loses money. Instead, with SolarCity's direct financing, "you only pay based on the production of the system," which SolarCity will monitor and guarantee against drops in performance, Rive told Business Insider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fareastwarriors Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 SolarCity Offers Bonds Online to Ordinary Investors http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2014/10/15/solarcity-offers-bonds-online-to-ordinary-investors/?module=BlogPost-Title&version=Blog Main&contentCollection=Energy&action=Click&pgtype=Blogs®ion=Body Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fareastwarriors Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Solar Energy Discounts Become Employee Perk in New Program http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/23/business/solar-energy-discounts-become-employee-perk-in-new-program.html?ref=business Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberty Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-10-29/while-you-were-getting-worked-up-over-oil-prices-this-just-happened-to-solar.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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